Sai Pearls of Wisdom - 22
November 11, 2003
Professor Anil Kumar has presented
this talk as an extra satsang. He has selected important messages
Baba has imparted to the students gathered around Him during the
afternoon sessions on the verandah at Prashanti Nilayam.
The Sai Pearls Talk Given by Anil Kumar
“Sai Pearls of Wisdom”
OM… OM… OM…
With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Welcome back to Sai Pearls of Wisdom session. After a gap of about
six months, we are meeting here for the first time. I am extremely
happy and grateful to Swami for having made the Sai Pearls quite
popular. People have been browsing their computers and they have
been expressing their satisfaction about it. As the matter is not
accessible to everybody and as everyone is quite anxious to know
what is being transacted there on the veranda between Swami and
the students, we are catching up with this information day-by-day.
I thank all of you for the keen interest you have been showing,
and for the encouragement that you have been giving me from
time-to-time to continue this project.
We commence from the month of August 2003. Swami returned here in
the month of July, around the 9th. The sessions started only in
the month of August, because in earlier periods, as you know, it
was not possible for us to interact with Him. It was not until the
month of August that He preferred to spend some time with us. I
want to bring to your attention a few of the important points that
happened on 11th of August 2003.
Symposium for School Teachers
Around that time, under the auspices of Sri Sathya Sai Institute
of Higher Learning, we had a symposium for school teachers. As you
know, Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Learning has been judged
the best in the country, and the University Grants Commission
requested Sri Sathya Sai University to conduct some orientation
courses for school teachers, so that they will apply values in
their teaching, as well as in practice. So, we had a symposium for
teachers from different schools, and around 50 of them were
selected for the first batch. Professors from Sathya Sai
University were given topics, and each one was to deal with a
particular topic. I should say without the least bit of
exaggeration that the entire symposium went on very, very well,
much to the satisfaction of the organisers and also the
It is in that connection that a conversation took place that
evening, on 11th of August 2003. As it was a long time since we
had Bhagavan in our midst, naturally we were thrilled. We were
very much excited to find Him sitting on the chair and talking to
every one of us, because for a couple of months we were away from
Him physically. Bhagavan was equally happy to talk to us that day,
and He exceeded even bhajan time, which rarely happens. As bhajan
time is nearing, He usually winds up the talk, and proceeds
towards the bhajan hall. But this time, the conversation went on,
meaning we also took some bhajan session time. It speaks of the
eagerness of the students and the Love of Bhagavan.
Unity of Religions
Bhagavan started asking us some questions. He looked straight at
me and said, “What was your topic? On what topic did you speak to
I said, “Bhagavan, I spoke on the unity of religions.”
“Oh, I see.” Then Swami put a question “How did you explain this
unity? What are the examples that you have given in support of
I answered this way: “Bhagavan, Your discourses come to my rescue
every time. All the valuable things that I hear and the pearls
that I collect from Your Lotus Feet are of immense value to me. I
make use of that literature.”
And then I started to tell Swami like this: “Bhagavan, I explained
the six major religions on the basis of values, not on the basis
of rituals. Religions differ so far as rituals are concerned. But
religions are united and religions are in harmony when we take
spirituality into consideration. If you go by rituals, we are
divided. If you think of spirituality, we stand united.” That’s
what I said.
“For instance, Swami, Truth, Righteousness, Peace, Love,
Non-violence -- all the values that You talk to us about are
common to all religions. Therefore, when we are value-based, we
will be able to arrive at unity”. That is what I said. “Swami, I
recalled what You said in this line, and I shared it with those
teachers on that day.”
Swami did not leave me at that stage.
Further He said, “What are the religions that you spoke on?”
“Swami, the six major religions.”
“What are they?”
“Yes, these are the following six major religions followed in this
country: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity, Islam and
"Gold is Same but Jewels are Many”
Then Swami said, “OK, how did you proceed?”
Then I said, “Swami, I made three points: first, the important
points of each of these six religions. Second point was about the
basic values like Truth, Righteousness, Non-violence, Peace and
Love, and what each religion has got to say on these values.
Third, I told of Bhagavan’s views on each of these religions. I
made in a tabular form, Swami, with the principles first. Next, I
talked about these values and what they tell, and finally Swami’s
views on these religions.”
Well, I could find an expression of satisfaction on His face. (Laughter)
Then, however, Bhagavan asked, “What are the examples you have
given to tell them that unity of religions is necessary? How could
you prove that there is unity?”
I said, “Swami, I’ve taken an example from Your literature. Gold
is same, but jewels are many. Flowers are many, but worship is
same. Out of the same clay, so many pots are made. Goal is one,
though paths are many. Sky is one, though stars are many. You have
given a number of examples, Swami, and I cited all of them. They
seem to have been convinced.”
Then Swami put a very pertinent question. “Where have you learned
this unity of religions?”
“Swami, I must admit I have learned this unity after coming to
“Oh, how could you learn?” (Laughter) “You say you have
learned unity of religions after coming to Me. How did you learn?”
"I Have Learned it Here"
I said, “Swami, the place itself conveys sufficient message. As we
come to this place, we come across Sri Sathya Sai Hill View
Stadium, where we have statues of Krishna, Lord Shiva, Jesus
Christ, Guru Nanak, Lord Buddha. All these statues, each 20 to 30
feet high, speak of the unity of religions.
Passing by, we come across Chaitanya Jyothi Museum, which speaks
of the unity of religions through charts and computer
presentations. And then we go into Prashanthi Nilayam. There is
the Sarva Dharma Stupa, which is a symbol of unity of all
religions. You must have seen it behind the Poornachandra
Auditorium. That pillar with a lotus flower is a symbol of the
unity of religions. Important points of all the religions are
carved on each side of its foundation wall.
As we go into Poornachandra Auditorium, we find all these things
embossed on the wall: There is Christ surrounded by sheep, the
Guru Granth, the Holy Book of Sikhism, the Holy Fire of Zoroastra,
and Lord Krishna talking to Arjuna. The Poornachandra Auditorium
also speaks of unity of religions. This place itself has got a
message based on the unity of religions. I have learned it here
only, Swami.” That’s what I said.
"How Diversity Has Come Out of This"
And then, Swami said, “All right, you say unity is there. Explain
how diversity has come out of this.” Well, all the answers were
exhausted. I had to lift both of my hands in helplessness. Then,
there was no other alternative than to surrender to the Lotus
Then Swami started speaking on this topic: “Look, you have eyes,
ears, hands and legs. All these limbs of the body belong to you
only. Limbs and organs are many, but they belong to you, is it
not? Similarly, all these religions are like limbs. They all speak
about the same God. That is unity.” That’s what Bhagavan has said.
“And further, if you know one person clearly, you will be able to
know everybody else. Here is a simple example. Every medical
student studies the parts of a single person. The same parts are
present everywhere. The eye structure of Me is same as the eye
structure of you. The ear structure of Me is same as the ear
structure of you as well. Similarly, if you know one, you will
know everyone. That is what unity is.” That is what Bhagavan has
Therefore, though there are so many bulbs illumining and shedding
light, the brilliant current behind is one and the same. That’s
how you can certainly establish unity, as Bhagavan has said.
“How to Achieve Unity?”
“Swami, all right! A simple question.”
Swami said, “What is it?”
“Swami, how do we achieve unity? I have known unity theoretically.
Diversity is what I see. But, how do we achieve unity? How do we
attain unity? That’s my question.”
And Bhagavan said, “That principle which is not seen is
responsible for the functioning of the whole of the body that you
see. The hands that you see work because of Divinity. The legs
walk because of Divinity. Eyes see because of Divinity. So, these
limbs are seen, but the Divinity is unseen. When you think of that
unseen, single principle of Divinity, naturally you can attain
We are not able to understand unity because our vision, our
understanding, is divided so we don’t think of the main source. If
we think of the main source, naturally we’ll attain unity. That’s
what Bhagavan has said.
Then I made one comment, because on every occasion we want to
exhibit our scholarship or knowledge in a foolish way, and get
into a problem. That’s what happens, particularly with Swami. One
has to be very careful. But I am known for these things, putting
questions every time so I can extract some information from Swami
that will be useful to everybody. At times, the questions may look
quite silly, out of context and irrelevant. But the matter that I
get from Swami thereafter will be of immense value to everybody.
The Secret of Education
Now I said, “There is one character in Bhagavatha by name
Prahlada. This boy Prahlada said to his father, “Oh father, I
could know the marma (Sanskrit word, meaning ‘secret’ or
‘mystery’) of the whole knowledge.”
Baba caught hold of my neck now! Then He said, “What is the
meaning of marma?”
I said, “Swami, ‘essence’.” Prahlada said he could know the marma
of education, meaning he could know the essence of education.
Baba said, “No. It is not essence. It is a secret. Marma means the
secret of education.” And then He asked me, “Oh I see, now tell me
the secret of education.” (Laughter)
What shall I say? “Swami, I don’t know anything else other than
what I remember. I don’t know anything else other than what You
said, which I happened to hear and translate. What can I do,
He said, “Nothing wrong. Tell what you know. Come on!”
He insisted that I should say. “All right. Swami, I will quote
Your own poem. One time You said: ‘The essence of all sacred texts
all over the world can be summarised in a single sentence. This is
the secret of education. What is that?
The same Self is present in everybody.
The Self in you is the same as the Self in everyone.
That is the secret of education.’ O Swami, so simple!”
Then further Swami commented, ”Correct! Why do you hesitate to
tell what you know? Why are you afraid to tell that which you feel
correct? You have given the correct answer.”
"Path to Unity is Self-Enquiry"
Then Swami said, “What did you have in the college?”
“Swami, we had a symposium in the college.”
Now He started asking questions. “What is a symposium?”
“Swami, a symposium is a process, a phenomenon, where different
perspectives, different viewpoints on a single topic are projected
by different participants. The theme is only one. On a single
theme, people present different viewpoints, different aspects.”
Swami said, “No, you are wrong. Yes, good, good.” (Laughter)
“Then Swami, what else is symposium?”
Then Swami said, “You are wrong. Symposium is not division. You
said there are different points on the same topic. You are wrong.
Division is not symposium. Union is symposium. S-y-m means
‘union’. ‘Symposium’ means where people unite. It is not, as you
said, where they divide. (Laughter) So, you are wrong. They
“Oh I see, Swami, all right.” That’s what Bhagavan said.
"Self-Enquiry is the Only Way to Attain Unity"
“Swami, what should I do? What practice should I follow to
experience this spirit of unity?” Then I just gave some more
points for Swami to speak on, to provoke Him, (Laughter)
and to get some ‘bangings’ in turn.
“Swami, people say that japa or penance, dhyana or meditation,
puja or worship, and prayer are different paths, different
spiritual exercises, done to attain unity. Which one should I
Swami said “None of them.” (Laughter)
“None of them?”
“Swami, so what should I do now?” (Laughter)
Baba said, “Enquiry, the path of enquiry: Put to your self the
question, ‘Who am I?’ I am not the body, I am not the mind, and I
am not the intellect. I am the Self.’ Self-enquiry is the only
path to attain unity.”
But I didn’t want to keep quiet at that stage. “So, Swami, do You
mean to say that meditation is useless? Do You mean to say that
worship is a fit-for-nothing process? So, shall I stop all these
Then Baba said, “No. These are all the processes that will make
you fit enough to enquire within yourself.”
I think I am clear. By meditation, your mind will develop
concentration, which will help you to make Self-enquiry. By
worship, your mind becomes pure, fit enough for Self-enquiry. So
all the paths we are adopting make the ground ready, make the mind
ready, to turn inward and proceed along the path of enquiry. You
see that is the uniqueness of Baba. He says one thing; at the same
time, he does not reject the other thing. They are all necessary
to have bliss. That is Bhagavan Baba.
"Bhakti and Karma are Present in the Path of Wisdom"
So, this Self-enquiry is very necessary. But for that, meditation
and bhajan are all necessary. It makes you fit enough, and it
“Swami, excellent!” And then, “Swami, I have got one more
“What is it?”
“Swami, people say that the path of enquiry is the path of wisdom,
jnana, which is superior or most high. It is the highest level of
spirituality. So, is it enough if I proceed in that direction,
because it is the highest level? It’s a non-stop air flight. Why
change over in Bombay or Frankfurt? It’s not necessary. Go
straight! So, Swami shall I proceed along the path of enquiry,
which is the path of jnana yoga, straightaway? People say that it
is most superior.”
Baba said, “No, you are wrong again. Even in the path of wisdom,
action or karma is present. There is also present bhakthi or
devotion. Even in the path of wisdom, these two are there.”
Mere wisdom is only the collection of facts, knowledge, if there
is no action. Mere wisdom makes you arrogant if there is no
devotion. So, wisdom will find its fulfillment, wisdom will find
its fructification, only if coupled with action and devotion.
That’s what Bhagavan has said.
"There is nothing like a Higher or Lower Level in Spirituality"
Anyway, I wanted to put another question. “Swami, excuse me for
putting this question. Would You please let me know what is the
best method in spiritual practice or sadhana? What is the most
suitable way? Which is higher than the others?” (Because we want
to be high in life, you know, so I asked, “Which is superior?
Please let me know.”)
Baba said, “Remember always that there is nothing like one being
superior or the other being inferior in spirituality. There is
nothing like a higher level and a lower level. The higher and
lower are only competitive, comparative words used in worldly
parlance or in a worldly sense. But in spirituality, there is
nothing like superior or inferior. There is nothing like higher
level and lower level. Everything is the same. That’s what you
have to understand.”
“Swami, how am I to know? I think I am a bit higher than others (Laughter)
because I am sitting on a chair.” (Laughter)
Now Baba said, “If you stand in water knee-deep, you can see and
talk to everybody. If you are in water neck-deep, you can still
talk to everybody. If you drown yourself totally, you cannot
communicate anything to anybody. (Laughter) Similarly, the
ultimate experience is silence. So long as you speak of superior
and inferior, you have not got anything. When you remain silent,
when you remain speechless, that is the attainment of unity.
Harmony is oneness, without any kind of comparison.” That’s what
Bhagavan has said.
"After Self-Enquiry, What am I Going to Become?"
“Then another question, Swami.”
“Yes, what is it?”
“Swami, it’s very good. After Self-enquiry, after realising the
Self, what is going to happen to me? (Laughter) After
getting MSc., what will happen? You’ll become a lecturer. After
getting Ph.D., what will happen? You’ll become a professor. So
similarly, after Self-enquiry, what is going to happen to me? What
am I going to become after this?”
Baba laughed and said, “You are not going to become anything. (Laughter).
There is nothing to become also.” (Laughter)
“Oh I see. Swami, how?”
Baba said, “It seems that a parrot made up of sugar candy wanted
to know the depth of the ocean. So, this parrot, which was made up
of sugar, went close to the ocean and dove into the ocean to
search how deep it was. In the meantime, while searching, it got
dissolved. Similarly, in the process of Self-enquiry, you are
lost; you are gone. You become one with the vast universe. You are
one with the infinite. You are one with the cosmos. You are not
separate anymore to say that, ‘I got this, I got that; I became
this, I became that.’ So, those who say, ‘I got this, I became
that’ have not got anything other than ignorance.” We have got to
understand that very clearly.
"How can the Finite Know the Infinite?"
And then I asked, “Swami, one question please. Pardon me, Swami. I
know that bhajan time is fast approaching, but I don’t know
whether I would get a chance to put this question again. So let me
seize this opportunity.” (Laughter)
“Swami, the Self is infinite. I am finite. Divinity is so vast,
unlimited. I am limited. How can the limited know the unlimited?
How can the finite know the infinite? Is that possible, Swami?
Baba said, “It is only the limited that can know the limitless. It
is only the finite that can know the infinite, because there is no
question of the infinite knowing the infinite. Infinity is one.
Therefore, your mind is finite, while Self is infinite. With the
help of the mind which is finite or limited, you should be able to
know the infinite and limitless.”
So with the help of the limited, you can know the unlimited. The
mind, which is limited, should make you experience the Self, which
is infinite. That’s what Bhagavan said.
"Vibration and Inner Voice"
“Swami, these days many people are using two important words,
which I don’t understand, nor find any sense in. But I cannot
dismiss those two words openly because I don’t want them to think
that I am ignorant of these things. At least I should pretend that
I am a wise man, though it may not be so in reality. The meaning
and experience of these words I don’t have. Would you please
explain what they are, Swami?”
Swami said, “What are those two words? Tell me.”
“One is ‘vibration’. The second is ‘inner voice’. People speak of
these two words, vibration and inner voice. I want to know, Swami,
is this inner voice present in everybody, or is it the sole
property of a few people?”
Some people say, “Swami told me this by an inner voice.”
“Why does He not tell me? Why should He tell you? Do you think
that you only have inner voice and I have no inner voice, only
outer noise? What do you mean?” Is inner voice common to everybody
or the monopoly of a few?
And we find people changing their places. Why? “I am not getting
good vibrations.” (Laughter)
“Oh I see. When you are feeling those vibrations, how is it that I
don’t feel? So, you have vibrations and I am vibration-less. So,
you are a master of inner voice and I have much less inner voice.
What is all this, Swami? I don’t understand. Please kindly explain
what it meant.”
Swami explained in a simple way. I want you to really understand
and appreciate it because nobody has ever given this kind of
He said that the body has senses. This is the first level, and
what we call ‘conscious’. ‘Conscious’ means the body with senses.
There is Divinity in every one of us. The individual soul is what
you call ‘conscience’. Now Baba says the connecting link between
‘conscious’ and ‘conscience’ is vibration. So, vibration arises at
the meeting point between ‘conscious’ and ‘conscience’, meaning
between the body and the individual soul. There you have this
“Then, inner voice, Swami?”
“Wait, first you understand this.”
“Swami, I understand. Then, what is inner voice?”
“The individual soul is conscience, OK? While the cosmic soul, the
universal soul is ‘Consciousness’. The connecting link between
‘conscience’ and ‘Consciousness’ is the inner voice.”
“Oh, then why is there no inner voice in my case? How shall I
Bhagavan said, “You have not connected the individual soul with
the universal Soul.”
“You have a tumbler full of water. All right. Throw it out! Pour
the tumbler full of water into the ocean. What will happen? This
water and the ocean water will become one. So similarly, when the
individual soul, the conscience, is one with the universal Soul,
Consciousness, in that unity, you hear the inner voice. Because
you have limited yourself, like the water in the tumbler, you have
remained at the conscience level. You have not gone to the
Consciousness level. Therefore, you are not able to listen to the
inner voice. Am I clear? You don’t feel the vibration because you
have not connected the conscious, the body, with the conscience,
the individual self.”
"There is Nothing Like Good and Bad"
“Swami, fantastic! Nobody gave this kind of interpretation till
now. Then Swami, what about certain things being branded good and
other things being branded bad? People say that this is bad, while
that is good. But what is good at one time is bad later. (Laughter)
What is bad now is good later. What am I to do? Good and bad are
relative. You cannot say that this is totally bad, and that is
totally good. Who am I to say that?”
Then Swami said, ”There is nothing like good and bad. Why? Good
and bad are the factors that are decided or judged by the mind. It
is the mind that decides; it is the mind that distinguishes; it is
the mind that differentiates; and it is the mind that divides the
good and the bad. But spirituality is beyond the mind. It is
transcendental. At that stage, there is nothing like good and
“So, Swami, can we have a free life now? (Laughter) There’s
nothing like good and bad now. (Laughter) So, we can have a
free, jolly life.”
“Because you have not transcended your mind. You have not gone
beyond the mind. Your mind is full of desires, enough for ten
lives to come! And you are so egoistic because of your mind; you
are so proud because of your mind; you are so possessive because
of your mind; you are so attached because of your mind. Lust,
love, greed, ego, anger -- these are all the qualities of the
mind. So, you operate at the level of the mind. When you operate
at the level of the mind, you’ve got good and bad. You must follow
that. When you have transcended mind, this does not apply.”
“Jesus Christ spoke to good people and sinners also. So, to Jesus
Christ, there is nothing like a saint and a sinner. Both are the
same, because he has gone beyond the state of the mind.” So,
that’s the example Bhagavan has given.
"Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you"
Further, Swami said, “Whatever may be the vibration, whatever may
be the inner voice, I want you all to remember one point: That
which hurts you will hurt anybody. That which makes you happy will
make everybody equally happy.”
So considering that which is painful, I must know that it is
equally painful to everybody. That which gives me pleasure and
bliss will make anybody blissful and happy. Therefore, do unto
others as you would like them to do unto you. Therefore, I should
treat others in the same way as I would like to be treated. With
that, that day’s session concluded, which happened to be the 11th
"Our All-Knowing God"
Now, this conversation refers to the 12th of August. Swami came
that evening and sat on the chair and started enquiring, “How are
you?” And then, suddenly, Swami looked at a boy and said, “How is
The boy said, ”Swami, she is undergoing treatment.”
Baba immediately remarked, “That treatment is not correct. She is
suffering from a kidney problem, which is not diagnosed by the
doctors. I will give you vibhuthi prasadam now. Send it to her and
that will solve the problem.”
My friends, this is a miracle that I want to share with you.
Because of the omniscience of our Bhagavan, though the boy never
said that his mother was sick, Swami looked at him, saying, “Come
here. How is your mother?”
The boy did not have a seat in the front row. He was far behind.
That is our all-knowing God. We are in the company of the
all-knowing, all-powerful God. Further, Baba said, “Take this
vibhuthi with you.” What does it mean? He knows the cause and the
cure. He knows the diagnosis and the treatment. That’s why He
could tell the boy the treatment was wrong. The treatment that the
boy’s mother was undergoing at that time was not right. Therefore,
this was a revelation for everybody.
"Bhagavan is the Singer in Every one of Us"
Then, there were a few boys sitting in the front row belonging to
the Music College. The boys started singing. Sruthi is pitch. One
has to adjust the voice and all those things. Any instrument that
you play must be in accordance to our pitch, right? Sruthi.
Before the boy started singing, He said the exact note and told
that fellow who plays on the harmonium, “That is his wavelength.
That is the wavelength of his voice. Come on, adjust to that.” The
boy was surprised. He didn’t start singing.
Bhagavan told the fellows, “Adjust. This is his pitch. Adjust to
that.” Bhagavan is the singer within every one of us. Bhagavan is
the song of life. Bhagavan is the voice of everyone, so He could
"He is the Divine Doctor"
This happened on 13th of August 2003. He asked the music boys to
sing. They were singing, and then, from among the four of them, He
asked one boy to come close to Him.
He said, “Your voice is not proper. You are suffering from cough,
is it not?”
“Yes Swami. Cough, Swami… problem.”
“I see. Don’t worry.”
By the wave of His hand, Bhagavan materialised tablets. All of us
saw it. Not only me, but also a few hundred boys saw it there, on
“Take these tablets for two days, thrice a day. You will be free
from all the problems of the throat.”
By the third day, that boy’s voice not only had a total cure, but
the voice improved. It is a metallic voice. So, Swami’s curative
measure is not simply a cure, but an improvement over the past,
because He is the Divine Doctor Himself. That’s what we have seen.
"Why do you Shout Like That?"
This refers to the 5th of August. (Of course, as per the date, I
should have told it earlier. But the content is important.) Swami
was coming along the verandah, before occupying His chair. He
looked at me and said, “Why did you speak loudly there?”
“Swami? Where, Swami?”
“In the lecture this morning -- what a loud voice it is! Do you
think all the people are deaf? Why do you shout like that?” (Laughter)
Then I said, “Swami, I know my weakness. (Laughter) I am
trying to bring down my voice all these years unsuccessfully. (Laughter)
Before it was very horrible. But now (Laughter) I think it
is sufficiently moderate.”
“No, no, no. It is still loud.” That’s what Bhagavan said. (Laughter)
But that made me happy. Swami said, “Why are you looking like
I said, “Swami, my voice may be loud and disturbing, but I am
happy that You heard my talk.” (Laughter)
"Religion is Love"
And then Swami started speaking again: “You spoke on the unity of
religions, I understand. What is religion? Do you know that?”
“Swami, religion is a path to reach God.”
He said, “You are wrong, you are wrong!”
“So Swami, what is religion now?” (Laughter)
“Religion is Love. Religion is Love.”
“Oh Swami, is religion Love?”
“Yes. Religion is also called realisation. What have you to
realise? That religion is Love. That’s what you should have said
to those teachers.” Bhagavan said.
“Swami, all right, religion is Love. Then, why are there so many
religions? So many religions are there: Islam, Hinduism, and all
that. If there is only one religion of Love, then why so many? “
Then Baba said, “If you stop arguing, you will experience unity.”
(Laughter) The unity of religion can be experienced by
stopping argumentation. That is the only way. That’s what Bhagavan
And then I said, “Swami, another question. Why different
interpretations? There are Catholics, Protestants, Hindus,
Shaivaites, and Vaishnavaites. Why are there so many
Then Swami said, “It is only for arguments. So long as you go by
interpretations, so long you go by these narrow paths, you can
never experience unity.”
"Draw the Best out of the World"
“Swami, I have one doubt.”
“What is it?”
“Swami, people say that Buddhism is atheistic, that Buddhists do
not believe in God. Am I right?”
Swami said, “No. (Laughter) No. What Buddha says is this:
You get a message through the senses. You get a message of the
scenario through your eyes. You get the message of sounds through
your ears. So, you get messages from the outer world through the
senses. Is it not right? Therefore, Buddha says, only see what is
good. Samyak drishti. Have good vision. So, let the eyes be
windows so that all good will be taken in. And all that you hear,
hear what is good. Samyak Sravanam. Good listening. So, what
Buddhism tells you is to draw the best out of this world through
these senses. It is not that they are non-believers. Don’t say
that they are atheists, no.”
That’s what Bhagavan said, commenting on Buddhism. Actually
speaking, we’ll be very much surprised while listening to Swami
from time-to-time because we’ll be under the impression that we
know things. But as we hear Him, we will know that we do not know.
So, my friends, it is absolutely necessary to hear Swami so that
we know what is.
"Adi Shankara Integrated Buddhism and Hinduism"
Then, I would like to draw your attention to certain other
important points. “Swami, history says that Adi Sankara
contradicted and condemned Buddhism. Is that right?”
Those of you who are students of comparative religions must have
come to know and would definitely agree with me, that what Adi
Sankara says is just the opposite of what Buddha said. And some of
us are also under the impression that Sankaracharya condemned
outright Buddhism. So that is the question I have put.
Swami said, “No. He has not contradicted him. He has not condemned
“Swami, do You mean to say that he has supported him?”
“No. I did not say that.”
“So, Swami what do You say now?”
Baba says, “He could integrate Hinduism and Buddhism. It is a
question of integration. It is not a question of contradiction.
Adi Sankara could take the spirit of Buddha. Buddha is better
explained now. So, it is a question of integration; it is not a
question of contradiction.”
Look here, the point is this. We will never find Bhagavan
condemning any religion. We will never find Bhagavan denying any
religion. We will never find Bhagavan speaking low of any
religion. On the other hand, He will take them to heights, to
exalted heights! That is something great.
"Adi Sankara followed the Path of Devotion also"
“Swami, about Adi Sankara, I have got one question.”
Swami said, ”What is it?”
“Adi Sankara stands for non-dualism. Non-dualism is a school of
philosophy that believes in the ancient wisdom, jnana marga, the
path of wisdom. Is that true, Swami?”
Bhagavan immediately said, “The same Adi Sankara wrote a number of
songs and hymns in praise of the Goddess. It means what? He
followed the path of devotion also. So, never say that Adi Sankara
supported only wisdom. No. He followed the path of devotion also.
And he has composed the beautiful verse, Bhaja Govindam, which is
based on the principles of devotion.”
And finally He said, ”Why do you argue like that? Understand that
one is a corollary of the other. They are all sequential. A tender
fruit gradually develops into unripe fruit. The unripe fruit
slowly turns into a ripe fruit. So, the ripe fruit of today was
unripe yesterday. The unripe fruit yesterday was a tender fruit
earlier. So, one leads to the other. That’s not contradictory.
That you should understand.”
"Thyagaraja had no raga"
And then slowly, students of the Music College started moving to
the front. You know little boys. People fight there to occupy
front rows. So, the boys are jumping to take the front row. I got
a feeling, ’Why not ask some questions on music?’
Slowly I said, “Swami, raga or tune is very important for music.
And there are two very popular musicians in Andhra Pradesh. One is
Thyagaraja. The other composer happened to be Annamacharya. These
are two great singers from this place. Swami, of the two, who is
greater?” (Laughter) Mind…what to do? (Laughter)
Mind does not want to accept things as they are. It wants to
judge. It wants to estimate. It wants to rate. So, my mind is no
Baba said, “Thyagaraja is certainly greater than Annamacharya.”
Please follow me. ‘Tune’ in Sanskrit is called raga. But this
Sanskrit word raga has another meaning also, ‘attachment’. So,
raga has two meanings. One is ‘tune’, another ‘attachment’.
Baba said, “Thyagaraja had no raga, no attachment, but only the
tune raga, the music part of it. He is a vairagi, meaning
detached. Whereas Annamacharya, the other popular composer, has
got some raga, the attachment with him, although his ragas, tunes,
are quite popular.”
“Swami, what a game You have played with this single word, raga! (Laughter)
Making use of the tune, and also the attachment at the same time!
You only can do it. All cannot do it. “
“Swami, is it that Thyagaraja is great because of his vairagya,
Swami said, “Not only that. All his compositions are based on his
personal experience. Each one of his experiences made him compose
a song. Therefore, they have become a legend, epoch-making. That’s
why Thyagaraja is so great.”
"All are One"
“I know that time is up, Swami. I’ve got one more question. People
speak of so many things like mind, intellect, ego, inner sense,
and so on. Where are they? If you cut the body, where is ego? You
don’t see it in the laboratory. In the operation theatre, if you
cut the body, where is intellect? You cannot show it. Where is the
mind? Where is the ego? You cannot show them. Where are they? What
Baba said, “All are one, actually. When you think, you call it the
mind. When you decide, it is called intellect. When you feel, it
is called chittha. When you say, ‘this is mine’, when you
introduce yourself as ‘I’, it is ego, ahamkara. So, ahamkara is
ego, I-ness. Chittha is feeling, passion. Manas is mind, thinking.
Buddhi is intellect, decision-making. All are same. Depending upon
the roles they perform, they are given different names.”
"Kingdom of Heaven is in Our Heart"
Now I take you to the 15th of August 2003. It happened to be the
Independence Day of India, which is followed all over the country.
There at the college, we had our own function, hoisted the flag,
received sweets and started running to have Bhagavan’s darshan. We
came, and the people said that darshan was over. That happens even
now. What shall I do? But somehow I am sure that Swami will not
disappoint us. “All right, please be seated. Let us see. Until
arathi, let us wait to see whether God is going to come or not.”
Please believe me, Swami came!
To the best of my knowledge and experience, Swami never speaks
politics. He never supports any single political party because all
party leaders come to Him. All need His blessings; all are His
children. So there is nothing Republican Party or Democratic
Party. Both are His children.
But on a personal note, I can tell you that I begin my day by
reading the daily newspaper. My head is full of politics. I am in
the habit of reading the paper. Yes, I read it thoroughly so I
know what’s happening everywhere. However, I am trying to corner
Bhagavan, and a number of times I made an attempt to make Him
speak on politics. Well, I failed utterly.
He just said, “Hmmm…I see. Hmmm…good, I see.” That’s all. No
“Swami, in that State, this is happening?”
“Swami here is that...”
My idea is to corner Him somehow or other, and see what He has to
say on this point. No. Why? Bhagavan speaks of democracy in a
different sense. Equality is not in terms of the exercise of
franchise or voting. It is equality of humanity. It is equanimity
of the mind. Bhagavan speaks of democracy in terms of sentiments
and feelings and ideology. Bhagavan refers to the ‘kingdom of
heaven’. Where is the kingdom of heaven? It is in our heart.
“Seek ye the kingdom of heaven and everything shall be added unto
you,” says the Holy Bible. Where is the ‘kingdom of heaven’? It is
in our heart. Bhagavan wants you to be the ‘king of your own
kingdom’. But we are slaves. We want to be democratic, but we
don’t have equal-mindedness. We don’t have the spirit of equality.
All this is only for political purposes. So, it is my foolishness
to put questions on politics. Well, I could not do it.
"Be Independent to be a Master"
Anyhow I said, “Swami, do You like political leaders like Tilak
and Bose, freedom fighters who struggled for the independence of
Now He could not control Himself. “Yes. Why, Anil Kumar, I know
what you want!” (Laughter)
“Now I will tell you in a simple sentence: Split the word
‘independence’: in – dependence. When you are ‘in dependence’, you
are a slave. When you are ‘independent’, you are a master. So, be
independent to be a master. But if you are in dependence, you are
“Swami, very good, very good. I am extremely happy.”
Being a dependent, you have to look for others’ help every moment
for everything. So, for any individual, for any institution, for
any nation, independence is important.
All right, there were still five minutes more before bhajan time.
Having failed all earlier attempts, I could get only one sentence
from Him about dependence and independence. OK.
But still, “Swami!”
“It seems in Your younger days, You have composed a few songs in
praise of this country. You have composed patriotic songs at a
He said, “So what?” (Laughter)
“Swami, roughly how old were You at that time?”
Do you know what Baba said? “My age at that time? You say in My
younger days? How can I say? I am ageless. How can I say My age? I
Though my intention is to drag Him into the political field, He
has taken me to spiritual heights. He has taken me to spiritual
heights by revealing that He is beyond time and space.
So, conversation with Swami is not only a matter of pleasure and
revelation, but at the same time, it is quite risky and
challenging. But it’s worth taking the risk, because we will be
That’s all that has happened during the month of August.
Anil Kumar closed the talk with the bhajan, “Govinda Gopala Hey
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Thank you very much. Tomorrow again we will meet at the same time.
Good night! (Audience) Sai Ram!
© Anil Kumar Kamaraju 2004 - Here
reproduced for personal use of the devotees for the purpose of
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