Sai Pearls of Wisdom - 19
February 22, 2003
Professor Anil Kumar has presented
this talk as an extra satsang. He has selected important messages
Baba has imparted to the students gathered around Him during the
afternoon sessions on the veranda at Prashanti Nilayam. These
talks will continue.
ANIL KUMAR'S SATSANG:
BABA'S CONVERSATIONS WITH STUDENTS
“Sai Pearls of Wisdom”
February 22nd, 2003
OM… OM… OM…
With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Welcome back to this evening session. By Bhagavan's grace, we are
nearing completion of our project. That does not mean this is
going to be discontinued. Certainly not! We will continue it. I am
also on the job to find the 1998 and 1999 conversations of Swami
with the students. Then we will also pass them on, transmit them
to the world of Sai devotees. We have taken this on as a matter of
Black and White - both are in me
Well, I did some homework to make the presentation this evening.
This relates to April 2001. As I said the other day, these are the
months from the Sanathana Sarathi Telugu version.
It was around 4:30 p.m. and Swami came out from the interview room
with a beautiful smile. That evening, He was quite enthusiastic to
convey something special. He came close to us and said, "Have you
Can we say, “Yes”? Then He may say, “Why did you see? (Laughter)
You are not supposed to see everybody around here.” Suppose we
say, “No.” Then the response may come, “You are sitting here. What
are you doing anyway?” (Laughter) Actually, it is just an
inconsequential question. The boys have learned the art of
communication – namely, silence. (Laughter)
Then I said, “Swami, I observed.” It is risk-proof hour!
So Swami asked, ”Whom did you observe?”
“Swami, I saw you call a group of boys from Africa for an
Baba said, "Yes, you are right. But they are not just boys; they
are Bal Vikas gurus."
“Oh, I see Swami. That is very good to know.”
Then Bhagavan said, "Have you seen the one elderly man in the
Well, having come this far, there was no point in hiding anything
now. I said, “Yes Swami, I saw him.” (Laughter)
Then He said, "You know him?"
“Swami, I know him, but I haven’t met him.”
"How do you know him?" (Laughter)
“He addressed the students in Bangalore and he also addressed the
students in Prashanti Nilayam, so I know him. “
Then Bhagavan said, ”He is Victor Kanu, head of the Sai center and
head of the Sai School for Education in Human Values. He is a man
of excellence and a long-standing devotee of Bhagavan.” Then
Bhagavan added, “That Victor Kanu, you know?”
“Ah Swami, what?”
“I performed his marriage.”
“Then both the husband and wife decided to work for Swami. All the
time they are thinking of how best to serve Swami. That has been
their continuous endeavor and continuous prayer. They are managing
the school very efficiently.” That’s what Bhagavan said.
Somehow I said, “Swami, all of them are blacks; all of them are
The expression of Swami’s face turned serious. “I don't have any
distinction of blacks or whites, browns or yellow or pink.
(Laughter) No distinction! All are the same to me - do you
“Yes, Swami I understand, but I am talking about those that came
out of the interview room. Swami, somehow I have some preferences
in respect to complexion. I have not condemned anything. I just
said I have some preferences.”
Baba said, "Because you have preferences in respect to skin
complexion, you fellows are suffering. You suffer like this
because you go by the external complexion of the skin. Therefore,
all of you are suffering. Know that black and white are both in
“Oh, I see. Both are in you, Swami?”
"Yes, why not?"
My friends, most of you know that Krishna was described with a
dark blue complexion. Krishna was dark in His complexion. Rama was
blue in His complexion. Balarama was fair in his complexion. So
all these complexions, all these colors, are in Divinity.
You would also agree with me when I say that, in the sunlight, all
colors are present. Sunlight may appear to be pure white. However,
when you pass the beam of white light through the prism of glass,
you find all seven colors, don't you? Similarly, in Bhagavan all
colors, all complexions, exist.
Are you happy? Are you healthy?
Now I will pass on to the next episode. A very elderly doctor was
coming along the veranda after a long gap of being absent. We came
to know that he recently had an operation. So, he had not been
coming for darshan. That day he happened to come for darshan. You
know what Bhagavan said?
"Are you happy, doctor? Are you healthy?"
He asked these two questions: “Are you happy? Are you healthy?”
Without being healthy, how can you be happy? So one must be
necessarily happy when one is healthy.
I said, “Both are the same; so, why two?”
Swami said "Why? What is wrong with you?"
“Swami, why did you ask these two questions? ‘Are you happy? Are
you healthy?’ “
Bhagavan said, "These two are necessary. Some people are healthy,
but they are not happy. What is health without happiness? Some
people are happy outside, but they are not healthy. Their health
is gone. So, it’s not enough if you are merely happy. It’s
necessary that you should also be healthy. And it’s not enough if
you are healthy; you should also be happy.”
For doing good, never take time
Now I will go on to the next episode. Bhagavan said one thing:
“Whatever I give, it’s only for My happiness. All gifts of grace
are meant for My own pleasure. I don't consider it a donation or
charity because you all belong to Me. I feel that you and I are
One. I consider your happiness as My happiness.”
It is also interesting to note, particularly when Swami goes on
giving to everybody, how tireless He is. The tireless God, without
any fatigue, goes on distributing clothes, watches, rings or
chains. He knows no rest. Still, He is never tired because that
Hand is always giving and forgiving.
At this moment, Swami made a remark: “Boys, look here. When you
decide to do anything good, do it immediately. Do not delay. Don't
take time. Do it immediately. If any bad thought comes into your
mind, don’t take action; take some time. Wait and think. For doing
good, never take time. Proceed immediately.”
Then in a jovial way Bhagavan said, "There are some people who
announce on a platform a donation of one lakh rupees, 100,000 - an
act of charity! But they go home and the wife says, ‘Where is the
money to give?’ Then this fellow will have second thoughts.
(Laughter) Why one lakh? 50,000, I think that is enough.
(Laughter) The next morning when someone comes to collect the
money, he gives the fellow 10,000 for now. ‘I will give you more
later.’ (Laughter) So, from 100,000 the fellow comes down to
10,000. Why? He has taken time to think.”
You get if only you give
I can also share with you another beautiful remark of Swami, which
is very interesting and important for all of us: “When you give,
you get.” We don't feel like giving because we are afraid that we
may lose. Yet, the secret is that you get only if you give.
Further Bhagavan said, “When you go on giving, you will have
infinite happiness, infinite prosperity and plenty. Therefore,
learn how to give. Not only that, by giving, your karma will be
Those of you who have not yet been exposed to Sai literature, who
do not know the details of karmic effects, I can give you one
example that Baba gave as sort of an explanation. While giving in
an act of charity, your karmic effects will be on the decline.
They will be reduced. A simple example - this is from Baba books
only. (Never think that Anil Kumar is imagining and interpreting.
Definitely not! I will never do it. I always tell my audience that
I am not capable of interpreting or imagining. No. Living in the
midst of the living, moving, loving, never failing, ever-willing
God, why should I interpret?)
So, what did Swami say? Suppose we have to pay 20,000 rupees for
income tax. What should we do? We don't want to pay 20,000 rupees
of our hard-earned money (Laughter). Why should we pay tax? So
what can we do? If we pay some rupees for insurance, the income
tax amount will be reduced. If we donate some money to charitable
trusts, the income tax will be reduced. Income tax rebate or
income tax reduction or income tax exemption is possible and could
be likened to receiving grace.
Similarly, when I am to suffer for a long period because of karmic
effects, when I attend bhajans, some amount of suffering is
reduced. (Laughter) I meditate and some punishment is reduced. I
do some seva and receive another exemption from ‘capital
punishment’. (Laughter) Similarly, there is nothing great in
amassing money, nothing great in grabbing money. The greatness
lies in giving and helping others.
Bhagavan mentioned the story of Draupadi and Krishna. It happened
once that Krishna pretended: Krishna acted as if He got His finger
cut. It started bleeding. Draupadi was wearing a new sari that
day. Many of the ladies noticed the bleeding. One lady went to
consult a surgeon for treatment. Another lady went to bring a
bandage. Another lady went inside to find some ointment. But
Draupadi immediately tore her silk sari. She tore her silk sari
and tied it up as a bandage. Later when Draupadi was humiliated,
insulted and disrobed in an open court, as act of gratitude,
Krishna blessed her with an infinite number of saris. Draupadi
gave a piece of cloth and later God gave an infinite number of
clothes (to protect her virtue). Similarly, when you give, you
get. That is the message of Bhagavan.
Mind is a bundle of thoughts
Now I pass on to the next episode. A boy gave Swami a slip of
paper. He wrote some words on it. Bhagavan read it and tore it
into pieces. As usual, He tears so nicely. (Laughter) In the
Divine hands, everything is an art.
Then He said, “You know what he has written?”
How do I know? I wanted to know.
Swami said again, “You know what he has written?”
“Swami, what has he written?”
“He has written, ‘Bhagavan, my mind is full of negative thoughts.
My mind is full of negativity. Please save me.’”
He was courageous enough, frank and free to have written this.
Actually, this is true for most of us.
This was Swami's answer: “Boy, understand. It is the mind that is
responsible for bondage or liberation. The negative mind takes you
to negative actions. Negative actions bear negative results. The
mind, when positive, will prompt you to take positive actions. And
positive actions will give you positive results. Therefore, never
entertain any negative thoughts.”
Bhagavan went on to explain: "Mind has no form. As is the thought,
so is the mind. When the thoughts are good, there constitutes a
good mind. When thoughts are bad, they make a bad mind. Mind is
nothing but a bundle of thoughts. Now boy, you wrote in the letter
that your mind is full of negative thoughts. Right. Okay. You know
that the thoughts are negative; so you are suffering. Once you
know the thoughts are negative and make you suffer, come on! Give
them up - throw them away! Don't entertain such thoughts, as
negative thoughts will make you suffer. Why should you suffer?
Brush them aside.”
Then He gave this example: “You think something is a rope. Once
you come to know that it is a snake, what do you do? Will you kiss
it? (Laughter) Immediately you drop it, don't you? Similarly, once
you know that the negative thought is making you suffer, drop it
Write in the mind - preserve in the heart
Now I move on to the next episode. Bhagavan started speaking about
a great philosopher. You know him too - Socrates. Socrates is
known for his philosophy. He is also known for his wife, who was a
termagant, a nagging type. (Laughter) So, he is famous in the home
front and for his very high level of intellect.
Bhagavan spoke about Socrates. Socrates was always writing
something on paper. The land of Greece was gifted with great
intellectuals - Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. They were not
ordinary people. Swami was speaking about Socrates. He was a deep
thinker and was always writing something on paper. His wife was
disgusted with him. (Laughter) Yes, most wives are disgusted
(Laughter) when they find their husbands very busy and finding no
time (Laughter) to spend with them. And I am no exception!
She said, “What is that you are always writing?”
“Dear, I have some thoughts. I am noting them on paper.”
“Stop writing!” she said. (Laughter)
“No, later I may forget, so I am writing now.”
She couldn't control her fury and anger. She brought a pot full of
water and poured it on his head. (Laughter) The fellow was totally
drenched. His clothes were completely wet. The papers were totally
Socrates smiled and said, “Until now, I thought it was
thundering.” A rain had also started. (Laughter) Then Socrates
said, “Look here dear, I can understand if you are angry with me.
I can understand your temper, but you made all the papers wet. I
want the information.”
Then she started speaking to him: “What have you written? You have
written all that is outside. Had you written what is inside, you
wouldn’t need the paper. All those worldly things, worldly
matters, other things, you write and forget. But that which is
from within, out of your heart, even if the papers are lost, you
don't need to worry because they will be imprinted in your mind.”
Then Socrates said, “I accept that you are also intelligent. I
Bhagavan said, “Boys, teachers always want you to write on paper.
I don't say that you should not. But, it’s more important to write
in the mind, more important to preserve in your heart, than to
simply write down on paper.”
Physically present but Mentally absent
Then we move on to the next episode, which I am sure will carry a
message for all of us. My friends, I am not tired to repeat time
and again that every conversation of Baba’s is meant for the
entire humanity. When Swami stands and talks to Anil Kumar, it is
to give darshan to thousands of people in the auditorium. Anil
Kumar is an excuse, that's all. If Anil Kumar thinks that Swami
stands there because of his excellence in devotion, he is fool
number one! (Laughter) God forbid that should ever happen. I may
not be a wise man; but thank God, up until now, I am not a fool.
Every conversation is meant for everybody - for the whole world.
While talking, Swami turned towards a boy and said, "All are
listening to Me; but you, fellow, are thinking about something
else." Actually this happens to most of us. We are grateful to
Swami that He did not tell us the same thing. Had He started to
point out everybody, well, I don't think we would be able to stand
As he was a boy, a young fellow, Swami looked at him and said,
"When all are hearing Me, you are mentally thinking about
something different. That is bad. You are pretending as if you are
hearing Me, but I know that you are not listening. Why? Where am
I? I am in you! I know where your concentration is."
Then He turned to everybody and narrated a story from the
biography of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, a great sage of India.
He is known for his devotion to Mother Kali.
Those who can find time should go to Calcutta and see Goddess
Kali. People say that the Kali temple is one of the important
pilgrim centers in India. Up until now, I have not been able to
go. I don't know when Baba will bless me to go around to these
places. Someday I wish to go to Arunachala (the holy hill in
Tiruvannamalai). Someday I wish to go to Pondicherry. Someday I
wish to see Belur Mutt where Ramakrishna Paramahamsa spent his
time. These places are all legends. They make human history great;
they make our lives sublime and we should remain ever grateful to
Bhagavan mentioned a story connected with the life of Sri
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Every evening, he used to talk with a
group of devotees. Swami said, “Same as now!” (Laughter) See the
link? Please understand this: “Same as now.” This means that the
purpose of an Incarnation is to teach an erring humanity, to
Swami said, “One day when Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was talking
about spiritual matters, many people were listening in rapt
attention. There was one lady, a very rich lady, who had
constructed the temple where Paramahamsa was working as a priest.
That lady, Rani Rasamani, financed the construction of the whole
temple. She was a rich lady and highly influential. She was there
among the audience. While speaking, Paramahamsa suddenly got up.
He went straight to her, slapped her one-two on both the cheeks.
He returned, sat in the chair and started speaking again.
Everybody felt very badly thinking, ‘Paramahamsa, the learned,
cannot go like that and slap a lady in public.’ “
“After some time, Paramahamsa started speaking like this. ‘Look
here! While I am speaking about spiritual topics, you are not
listening to me. You are mentally absent. You are thinking of your
court litigation. You are thinking of your court matter. You are
engrossed in your wealth. You should have stayed back at home. You
should have slept. You should have rested. Why should you come
here? You are physically here and mentally absent. What is all
this for?’ “
“Immediately, Rani Rasamani apologized. ‘My Lord, I beg your
This Swami mentioned, “Therefore, having come here, you should pay
100% attention to all that is said.” This is the end of that
Rules and Regulations
Now I pass on to the next month. There are certain gaps left in
our previous talks. I have carefully noted them down and I am
trying to fill them in. What I am talking to you about now
appeared in the September issue of the Telugu Sanathana Sarathi
during the year 2001. Bhagavan spoke about rules and regulations.
He said, “Today the law-maker is the law-breaker. The rulers of
the land never follow the rules. But look here: I always follow
the rules of this land. I follow the law of the land. I will never
transgress the law and rules of this land!”
Another time Bhagavan said, “God is actor and Director - both
actor and Director.”
Usually the director directs and the actor acts, as per the
directions of the director, is it not? But Bhagavan, the Divine
Cosmic Director, directs and also acts. Why? In directing, He is a
Master. In acting, He sets an ideal. How best to act? We should
learn from Him. He demonstrates an ideal and how to act. He uses
Himself as an example.
Rama was an actor; Krishna was an actor; but the Divinity within
was the Director. Am I clear? Rama acted well, so that we might
act like Him – so that we will be ideal parents, ideal citizens
and ideal administrators. From Krishna, who was the greatest
actor, diplomat and administrator, we may learn lessons of Love,
lessons of Peace and how to conduct ourselves in the cosmic drama
of life. So, God plays the role of an actor for all of us to
emulate and copy. Besides, He is the Director all by Himself.
That's what Bhagavan has said.
The rules and regulations are like two banks on either side of the
river. Without these banks on either side, the water flows in all
directions - in which case, the water cannot be channeled or used
to irrigate. By raising banks on either side, the flow of the
water can be channeled. Rules and regulations regulate human life
so that it will be systematic and disciplined.
Let us look at Swami's life - what a disciplined life it is! Can
anyone tell me an instance when Swami canceled any of the items in
His daily routine? No! Be it the day of the President of India’s
visit or the day of the Indian Prime Minister’s visit or the visit
of the Prime Minister of Sri Lanka - any VIP man may happen to
visit Prashanti Nilayam, but our Bhagavan has His regular schedule
of darshan, interviews, bhajans, followed by lunch, and then again
in the afternoon, darshan, interviews and bhajans. That’s all.
There will never be any break. If VIP’s or important people come,
He will have an extra load of work. On special functions and
festivals, He will have an extra load of work. Everything with
Swami is ‘in addition to’. It is nothing like ‘besides’. It is not
‘in place of something else’. It is always ‘in addition to’. You
understand my point: Swami goes on working - always extra work.
Nothing is ever cut short from His daily routine. His is the best
example for discipline and for observance of rules and
Primary School children make best speeches
Now I move on to the next episode. Swami sat there and somehow He
was in a good mood. "Umm...Come on boys, chant the Veda, chant the
In perfect harmony, all the fifteen hundred students started
chanting the Veda. The whole auditorium was full of resonance,
echoing with the sound of the Veda. The entire gathering felt the
vibrations of the Vedic chanting.
This is most interesting to note: In all the Sathya Sai
educational institutions, the students, right from a child in
kindergarten to the topmost Ph.D. boy, all know the Veda. All can
chant. You must have already noticed that. On all occasions, they
chant the Veda.
All of a sudden our God turned towards the side and asked one
primary school boy, "Aye, boy, come here." That boy came. Then the
Divine command: "Hmm, speak for some time."
The boy started speaking. He was a very young fellow. If Swami
asked you to speak now, could you speak like that? Impossible!
Little children can do that. Swami really enjoyed listening.
"Hmmm, go.” Then He asked another boy, “Hmmm, you speak.”
That fellow spoke in Hindi.
Then Swami said, "Accha, go, go." He asked another boy, and he
spoke in Sanskrit.
When Swami turned towards us again, fifteen of those boys stood in
line, in a queue. Every fellow wanted to speak!
Swami said, "Arre, arre, arre, so many boys! Enough. That is
enough. I will give you another chance (later)." But He didn’t
want to disappoint them. So again He had them speak, one after
Really, it was a fantastic experience! Before thousands of people,
children were lining up to speak in front of Bhagavan. Then
Bhagavan walked slowly towards me: "Have you heard their
“Swami, I heard them.”
"Can your students speak like that? Your university boys, can they
speak like that?"
I thought, ‘Should I say that they can’t? (Laughter) What can I
say? I have to live with them.’ (Laughter) If I say that they can,
Swami will say, “Sit down! What do you know?” (Laughter) So, I
Then Swami said, "They cannot. Primary school children can make
the best speeches, not your university boys."
I thought that if I kept quiet, the university boys would feel
badly. They will say, ‘Sir, you should have supported us there.”
So I said, "Swami, why? Why can they speak? Why can’t we speak? I
want to know."
Baba said, "All children can speak excellently. Why? They are
innocent. Because of their innocence, they have no fear. But with
university fellows, there is no innocence. They are full of ego.
Because of ego, they have fear about whether their speech will be
a success or a total failure. So they begin to doubt. Understand
that where there is innocence, there is Divinity."
“Swami, all right. I have to accept this. Why is there ego among
college students? Why are college students egoistic?"
Swami said, "As they grow in age, along with muscle power, ego
“Oh Swami, what shall we do? What shall we do now?”
Swami said, "The strength of your heart is more important than
your muscular power. Senior boys are egoistic because of their
physical strength. That is not important."
Then I said, “Swami, all right. You say the muscle power of youth
is responsible for ego. I have a simple doubt.”
"Hmm, what is your doubt?"
“Old people are weak. They don't have strong muscles. Does it mean
that they have no ego?” (Laughter) We see many old people – abba,
Himalayan ego! There are some people who don't allow us to stand;
they don't allow us to sit. (Laughter) Do they do this because of
senility? What to do?
One devotee came to me and said, “Sir, this man is not allowing me
to sit. He says, ‘Get up.’ When I stand, the man says, ‘Don't
stand here.’ What shall I do?”
I said, “Keep on moving.” (Laughter) What can I say? I said,
“Because he doesn't allow you to sit or stand, keep on moving.
Continue to move.” If he says, “Why do you stand?” you say, “I am
going.” (Laughter) When you sit, “Why are you sitting?” say, “I am
going to stand.” (Laughter) There is no other way. (Laughter)
“Therefore, Swami, old people don't have strong muscles. Do You
think they have no ego? Youngsters have strong muscles, meaning
physical strength. Therefore, they are egoistic. I understand.”
Then Bhagavan said, "In old age, muscle power is gone; but their
hearts are still very harsh, very rough, very tough. They are
stonehearted fellows. Therefore, they are still egoistic. Muscle
power is dwindling; muscle power is decreasing; but their hearts
are stony, very harsh and very rough. Therefore, they are
Swami always has the best answer. We cannot corner Him. No,
“Then Swami, what is it that we should have in order to be
fearless? To be fearless, what do You tell these youngsters to
Baba said, "Samatha – Equality, Samagratha - Integrity,
Samaikyatha – Unity, Sowbhrathratha - Fraternity. When these four
are in you, you will be fearless."
I repeat once again: Samatha – Equality, Samagratha – Integrity,
Samaikyatha – Unity, Sowbhrathratha – Fraternity. When you have
these four, you will be fearless.
I have no Witness
Now I move on to another episode. It happened to be a Thursday. As
you know, in our college every Thursday morning, we have one full
hour for a spiritual activity. We will have a guest speaker, a
panel discussion or a spiritual quiz - something like that.
That evening Swami asked, "What did you have this morning in the
The boys said, “Swami, we had one guest speaker who spoke on
Madhwacharya, a great exponent, a great philosopher, who advocated
the principle of dualism.”
Bhagavan started inquiring, “What did you understand from his
talk? Tell Me a few points.”
The boys could not answer. They could say, “It was fantastic.
Please, we will meet tomorrow.” But they were not ready with an
answer. When Swami asked what the points were, they could not
Then He looked at me. “What do you say?”
Well, I wanted to focus so that I might provoke Swami to come
forward with new dimensions on the same topic. So I said, “Swami,
this morning the learned scholar spoke on an aspect called the
‘witness’ or in Sanskrit, sakshi. Sakshi – witness. He spoke on
that. Swami, could you please explain a little more on that?”
Bhagavan said, "When he spoke, why should I explain? (Laughter)
You go and talk to him." Then suddenly He said, "I have no
Please understand the depth and the profundity of this statement:
“I have no witness.” It is really a profound statement. It may
appear to be simple. No! The witness is the Self in every one of
us. I think I am clear. Witness is the Self. This means that I
know what is correct and what is wrong. I know what is happening.
I know what is happening in my dream. That ‘I’ - which is beyond
time and space, region, religion, caste, community, language,
gender, age, or whatever else may be - is the Eternal Witness.
That ‘I’, that witness, is Divine. That ‘I’, the witness, is
Brahman - is God. So when Baba said, “I have no witness”, what
does He mean? He is the Witness! There is no question of another
witness in Him, because He is the Witness in all! Am I clear?
That's why Baba said, "I have no witness."
Believe me, I don't know about the reaction of other students and
teachers who are familiar with His literature and interested in
spirituality and philosophy, but to me, hearing this was something
like an electric shock. Yes! I lost myself thinking of that
Eternal Witness, which is very well stated in all the scriptures.
"Ah yes, what now?"
“Swami, this morning the learned scholar made references to
"What were they?"
“Swami, I could not understand properly.”
With reference to dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism,
the speaker had given a few examples. I wanted Swami to speak, so
that all would benefit. (People have not come here to hear my
talk. I am fully aware of that; I am highly conscious of that. My
job is only to extract more information - to make Him speak!)
Then Baba started speaking like this: “The three schools of
philosophy - dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism - are
complimentary to each other; they are not contradictory. They are
evolutionary, not revolutionary. They are sequential: one is the
corollary to the other.”
Then He gave examples: a tender fruit, an unripe fruit and a ripe
fruit. “The ripe fruit today was an unripe fruit a few days back.
Much earlier, the unripe fruit was a tender fruit. So the same
tender fruit develops, becomes ripe and fully ripens. Similarly,
dualism takes you to qualified non-dualism and, at the end, to
non-dualism. So dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism are
the three states of transition, one leading to the other.”
Then Swami said, “There is clay, the pot and the individual -
three. An individual makes use of the pot made out of the clay.
Similarly, nature is the clay. The potter is God. The pot is the
individual. Clear? These are like the three states of
consciousness, the three schools of philosophy - dualism,
qualified non-dualism and non-dualism.
Then I said “Swami, pardon me for this question.”
"Yes, what is the question?"
“Dualism says that God and man are separate. According to the
theory of dualism (Dwaitha), God and man are different. Then, what
is moksha or liberation?” (My friends, do not consider this
question simple and silly. Our idea of moksha or liberation is to
find Oneness with God, to find our identity with God. Now dualism
says, “God and man are different.” If this is true, then what is
moksha? What is liberation?)
Baba said, "In My mind, absence of attachment is moksha. When
there is no (moha) attachment, that is (moksha) liberation. Moha
kshya (moha - attachment, kshya – reduction) is moksha.” Am I
Finally Swami said, "You may say a number of things, but Truth is
One, Truth is One."
Being a student from a Christian college, immediately I said,
“Swami, in the Bible it says: ‘Ye shall know the Truth and the
Truth should set you free.’” When Swami said that the Truth is
One, how true it is!
Bookish knowledge is superficial
In the next episode, Swami asked, “What happened this morning in
the college? What was the program?”
I said, “Swami, we had the students speak on Christianity.”
"Oh, I see. Good. What did they say about the Bible? What did they
say about the Ten Commandments? What did they say about Jesus
He went on bombarding us with questions, one after another. The
boys got up and in their own way said, “Swami, these are the Ten
Commandments…” listing one, two, three, etc. Then, “Swami, Christ
was great. He was one of Love and sacrifice.”
"Oh, good!" Swami liked it.
Finally He said, "Look here. All that you said is based on your
bookish knowledge, which is superficial knowledge. What you should
have said is what you felt about it from your own heart, from your
own vibration, your own inner voice - your own intuition. Based on
that, you should have spoken, rather than on the collected
information from different books. Bookish knowledge is all
scholarship. Scholarship is only an exhibition. Scholarship is an
act of vanity. Don't do that."
“So Swami, what shall we do now? Shall we stop reading?”
Swami said, “No. Speak based on your experiences. Don’t go merely
by expression. Have experience as the foundation. Then expression
will have some value.”
Then Swami said, “Boys, you know Vedanta.”
In English, we say ‘philosophy’. But truly speaking, philosophy is
just a translation, an apology for the word. It does not convey
the depth of the meaning of the word Vedanta. Vedanta is a
Sanskrit word. Philosophy is an English word.
Swami says, “Full loss, fill loss - philosophy. (Laughter) Full
loss - full of loss. Fill that loss, so that it becomes
“Oh, I see. Then what is Vedanta, Swami?”
Swami said this: “Vedanta is the climax. Vedanta is the zenith.
Vedanta is the ultimate.”
“How? I don't know.”
Baba said, “Here is milk. Boil it. Wait for some time and you can
curdle it. Next morning you get curd, don't you? Now what do you
do? Churn it and churn it and you get butter, don't you? Now heat
that butter and you get ghee. Then heat the ghee; it remains as
ghee. Milk is the first state, the second state is curd, the third
state is butter and the fourth state is ghee. There is no other
state beyond it. So Veda is the milk, while Vedanta is the end,
the ghee, the finale, the ultimate.”
“Ah, Swami! We make use of ghee and we like butter, but we didn’t
know that it could be applied to philosophy and Vedanta. What an
excellent way to explain!”
When you act according to the command of God, you will get
everything in life
Suddenly Swami called one boy and asked, “What's your name?”
He said, “Swami, my name?”
“Oh, I see.” He looked at me. "You know anything about Parasuram?"
“Swami, he is a M.Sc. fellow.”
"Cha! Not this fellow! Parasuram of your mythology, of your
“Oh I know, Swami.”
“What? What do you know?”
“Parasuram happens to be one of the ten Incarnations of Vishnu,
the Divine. Parasuram killed all the warrior clan, the Kshatriyas.
He killed everybody except two, who escaped. One was the father of
Rama, Dasaratha. The other was the father of Sita, Janaka. Swami,
how could they escape? When Parasuram killed all Kshatriyas, the
warrior class, how could these two escape?”
Swami said, “Even in killing, there is one discipline." (Laughter)
“Oh, I see. What is the discipline?”
“When anyone is found doing yagna, he should not be killed. And
when one is getting married, he should not be killed. Dasaratha
had three wives. At the time Parasuram was about to attack him, he
was getting married to one of his wives, so he was exempt. When
Parasuram was about to kill Janaka, he found him doing some yagna,
so he was exempt. That led to the birth of Rama here and Sita
there. It led to a celestial wedding, Sita - Rama.” That’s what
Then Swami began explaining a story relating to Parasuram. “The
name of the father of Parasuram was Jamadagni, the name of a
saint. The name of the mother of Parasuram was Renuka. One day
Jamadagni, the father of Parasuram, was very angry with his wife,
Renuka, and called his son Parasuram.”
“‘Come here, boy. Take the sword and kill your mother.’
Immediately Parasuram picked up the sword and killed his mother.
His father was very happy because his son had immediately obeyed
“The father said, ‘My dear son, I am pleased with your conduct.
Now I am going to grant you a boon. What do you want? I will give
it to you.’ The son said, ‘Dear Father, bring my mother back to
life.’ Immediately, Renuka was resurrected; she was brought back
Swami's comment let us know that when you fulfill the desire of
God, when you act according to the command of God, you will
receive everything in life. For his obedience to Jamadagni,
Parasuram got the best prestige, a name that is remembered until
this day. His good deed brought his mother back to life. That's
what Swami told.
With thanks to Bhagavan, we will meet again later. Thank you very
much. Sai Ram.
OM… OM… OM…
Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya
Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai
© Anil Kumar Kamaraju 2004 - Here
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