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  Anil Kumar's Sunday Satsang at Prasanthi Nilayam
March 3, 2002

The Sunday Talk Given by Anil Kumar

"This, That and Both" (Part 2)

March 3rd, 2002


Sai Ram.

With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan.

Dear Brothers and Sisters!

Two Parts To Cover

This morning I have two parts to cover. The first part is that which was still left over from last week and the second part includes the Divine utterances, which Swami has been saying to us on the verandah - these we will be very much interested in. So we have two portions for this morning’s talk: the first to complete that which has been left over, and the second, the current, Divine dialogue with the Divine Master. I hope I’ll be able to do it justice.

For the last two weeks our topic has been: “This, That and Both.” “This” was the talk, which we did two weeks ago. “That” was the talk that we did earlier. “Both” is what we are going to know today. So the title is “This, That and Both”.

What is 'this'? What am I? Am I 'this' or am I 'that'? I am 'this', the body; I am 'that', the knower, the doer, the seer, the experiencer. So, the experiencer, the seer, the doer, the observer, the Indweller is 'that'. ‘This’ is the body. Therefore, in total, I am ‘both’.

If I am only the Indweller, I am just like the electricity - not utilized. If I am only 'this', meaning the body, I am like the bulb without the power supply. Power supply is 'that', while the bulb is 'this'. The light is ‘both’. I think I'm clear. Power supply is 'that', bulb is 'this' and the light is ‘both’. Similarly, every one of us here represents 'this' and ‘that’ - the body and the knower, the positive and the negative.

We’ll think of ‘both’ now. I know this is my body. I know this is my mind. I know that these are my senses. I know that I'm separate from all these. As Bhagavan repeatedly tells us in the interview and also in His public discourses, He wants us to know this ‘I’, which is separate from the rest.

This is my hand; I am separate from my hand. This is my eye; I'm separate from my eye. This is my leg; I'm separate from my leg. Senses belong to me but I am not the senses. This is my mind but I am not the mind. So these are all my instruments. These are all negative, whereas the real ‘I’, the owner, the Master is positive. This I, the Master, the owner, who is the positive, is basically and essentially spiritual and Divine. This true ‘I’ is spiritual and Divine.

When I identify with my body, I'm an animal. When I identify with my mind, I am a demon. When I identify with my body, mind and the Self (the real, true Self), I am the human.

So, who is a human being? MBA: It’s not simply the degree of Master of Business Administration, no! M = the Mind, B = the Body, A = the Awareness or Atma. So who are you? I am ‘MBA’. All of us can claim this degree without having to go to the business school of finance and accountancy. That is not necessary! Everyone is an MBA degree-holder. Why? M = Mind, B = Body, A = Awareness. The university does not need to give us such a degree. No, I am born with that!

Therefore my friends let us know this particular combination of the real ‘I’ - the combination of both the instruments and the real Self, which gets identified with the rest. In doing so, it then forgets its true identity, its true nature.

Before I actually proceed, I want to sum up all in one sentence: To know the true ‘I’, to experience the true ‘I’, to live in the true Self is the end of spirituality. It is the end of all religion. To know the body is, after all, the study of the basic sciences. All basic sciences deal with the body. All social sciences deal with the mind: psychology and para-psychology. The true Self is beyond these - the body and mind. So, we are going to study this now.

The Qualities of a Man Who Knows the True Self

What are the qualities of a man who knows the true Self? Our purpose is to be religious; our aim is to be philosophical. The goal of being near to God, the Avatar Bhagavan Baba, is only to know our true Self.

I have known the canteen, but that is not the purpose of visiting Puttaparthi. I have known the bookstore, but it is secondary. I have known the general stores, where there is greater rush than to the Mandir. Well, there the original purpose is gone! (Laughter) Do you see how people run immediately after bhajan to the stores? It is amazing, very amazing! (Laughter) We have got stores everywhere; the mind also has become a store of all filth, of all that is unwanted. But still we run to the stores. Very nice! That is our makeup; we cannot help it. That’s how our in-built qualities are.

So what is the purpose of the true Self? It is to know that which is beyond the body and the mind. So, what are the qualities of a person who has known this true Self, who has experienced this true Self? What are they?


Number one: Amanitwam, which means humility. A man of religion, a spiritual man, is never proud or egoistical. He is never after pomp, show, aggrandizement, and publicity. He’s so simple; he’s so humble. Take for example the knowers of the true Self - Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, Mahavira, Shirdi Bhagavan, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. They are so humble because they are the Self. They are the Self, in the Self, of the Self, and nothing but the Self. So humility is their name.

Therefore, the knower of the Self, Amanitwam, has humility. If anyone goes to Swami and asks a question, He does not say, “Shut up! This is the thing - I’ll tell you.” He will never say that. Instead He’ll say, “In My opinion, I think this is the possibility.” His words will never be directive; they will never be imperative; they will never be commanding. They are always suggesting and recommending. They are not mandatory; they’re only recommended. That is humility.

Lord Krishna was so humble that He drove the chariot of Arjuna. Jesus was so humble that he said, “I have come to serve and not to be served.” It was Socrates who said, “I know only one thing: that I do not know.” So, humility is the hallmark of the spiritual man.


The second, Adambhitvam, means unpretentiousness. Unpretentiousness means that he does not appear different from what he really is. If he knows, he says; if he does not know, he declares so. He does not claim to have known everything. No, no, no, no! That is hypocrisy. That is duplicity. No, no, no, no! He is just so simple - humble and simple.

Swami goes on talking about everything; but suddenly He says, “Ah, I do not know any medicine.” Till then He speaks on cardiology; till that moment He speaks on the nervous system, on neurology. After some time He says, “Ah-ah, I don’t know any medicine.” Then we have to pray within ourselves, “Baba, help me not to believe these words! (Laughter) You should only help me. You should help me to believe all the words that You said earlier, and now You should help me not to believe the last two sentences.” So He is plain, totally plain, and very simple.


Ahimsa means non-injury. If Bhagavan finds you standing exposed to the severe heat of the sun, He will ask you, “Go back and stand under the shade.” If He finds you totally drenched in heavy downpour of rain, He will say, “No, no, change your dress and come back.”

In Kodaikanal one year, it so happened that the whole day it was raining, and it continued like that for three to four days repeatedly. So Bhagavan called me and said, “Announce that there are none of Bhagavan’s discourses in the evening. This is only to see that the devotees are not put to inconvenience due to the heavy rains.” I announced, “No talks, so that devotees will not be put to inconvenience.” That’s what I said. All the devotees started returning from that Mandir. Ah! They were feeling so badly. I know many people who said (in a sorely disappointed tone), “Oh, No talks!” Well, they did not like the idea.

But Bhagavan knows immediately. He immediately called me and said, “Who are you to announce like that?” (Laughter) Shall I say, “You…uh… wanted”? I cannot say that. So I said, “I am sorry, Swami.” He said, “Useless fellow! See how they are feeling so badly. Come on! Announce that there will be talks from tomorrow. (Laughter) Then there’ll be a talk.” He is just the reflection of your sentiment, of your feeling, that’s all; then and there, at the spur of the moment, you and I act depending upon our history.

You and I act more or less thinking of the future. Bhagavan’s declarations and Bhagavan’s actions are different: they are right now in the present, in the moment. That is utter simplicity. He doesn’t want you to feel so badly for the cancellation of the talks. So He says there will be talks. Prior to that, He doesn’t want you to be totally drenched and suffer from cold, so He says there are no talks, which is correct. Both are correct. That is non-injury.


Then there is ‘Shanti’, which is forbearance. “Bhagavan, I'm so sorry. I acted in a way that is not befitting my life. I behaved in such a way which is quite unexpected of me.” When you say this, He says, “Hey, don’t worry. Past is past…is past.” Immediately He will say that. On the other hand, if you start justifying, “Why not? I had to act like that. I had to speak like that”, you will have to be just like that for a couple of years to come!

So, on the other hand, when we are ready to say, “I'm sorry”, when we're ready to just say, “Beg your pardon”, yes! You stand corrected and you stand excused. “Parava Ledu.” (This is a Telugu expression which means, “It doesn’t matter.”) “Past is past. It’s all right.” That’s what Bhagavan would say. This is forbearance.


Then comes arjavam, which means uprightness, straightforwardness. There is nothing like maneuvering or manipulation; there is nothing like a strategy. Our life is strategic. This morning I asked one boy, “Why do you sit here?” He said, “Swami passes by this way, therefore I sat here.” “Congratulations, my boy,” I said. Later both of us found Swami did not pass through that line at all! (Laughter)

So, religion is never a strategy, and spirituality is never manipulation. It is uprightness and straightforwardness! It is not like this: “If I do this, I’ll catch His eye.” I know one student who simply borrowed the camera of another friend. He thought that he could just click his camera like that. Swami came and said, “Sit down and keep quiet.” So, he could not click any photos, but he had to carry the weight of the camera, which was an extra burden! (Laughter) So what happens? Our manipulation and our calculations lead us nowhere. There should be straightforwardness, that’s all. Uprightness is not a strategy.

The Spirit of Service to the Teacher

Acharyo Pasanam means the spirit of service - service to the teacher. We have to serve the teacher. The teacher does not mean a classroom teacher or a teacher of a school or a college or a university. A teacher is a teacher in the strict sense of the word, the one who teaches you spiritual doctrine - the spiritual truths. The teacher is the one who talks to you on spirituality, not on mundane matters. This is nothing to do with the newspaper agencies. The teacher will talk to you about eternal things. He tries to kindle in you the awareness, the spirit of awareness, the lamp of the Self, the light of the soul. That one is the teacher. Others are teachers in namesake only. For their livelihood, they are teachers. But they are not teachers of awareness. So, serve that teacher of awareness.

One day it so happened that Bhagavan was carrying letters in both of His Hands. It rarely happens. Usually He will hold letters in one hand, while He will hold His garment with the other Hand, looking to this side and that side. It is such a beautiful sight to watch Bhagavan! That day He was carrying letters in both of His Hands. What shall I do? Just watch, that’s all…

He came close and said, “You fools! Don’t you even have the minimum courtesy to say, ‘Shall I hold the letters, Swami?’ You have no spirit of service at all, you fools!” So, it was not the first time to receive that title! That title is being conferred on us continuously day-after-day. It’s very good. Yes, why not? So we just laughed.

The second day when He was going like that, I stretched out my hand saying, “I shall hold Your letters.” He said, “No, no, no! I have arranged the letters in a particular order, which you are going to confuse. No, no! I can do myself.” (Laughter) Which is correct? That WAS correct yesterday. This IS correct today. I stand corrected every day! (Laughter) That’s what happens.

So, do service to the teacher. When He needs service, we do not know. Last evening when He started talking, I thought that if I talk loudly, it would be indecent and I would find my place outside the hall. If I talk softly, I'm doubtful whether I'm audible to Bhagavan or not. So I just climbed to the next step and started talking. Immediately He said, “You go back. I can hear you clearly.” (Laughter) So, that’s what it is. If I want to serve the Lord that way, He says, “Not necessary.” If I keep quiet, He says, “You are not receptive; you are almost a he-buffalo!” So the spirit of service should continue. You should never lose your spirit just because the service is denied. The service might be accepted some other day.

Whenever Bhagavan materializes vibhuthi, He will take a kerchief from anybody in order to wipe His palm. That’s what He does. One day He just looked around. Well, I was not carrying my kerchief with me in my pocket. “Chi chi, he-buffalo! You don’t have kerchief also?” (Laughter) Then I thought that I should have one. So every day I was taking a kerchief, but then He never materialized any vibhuthi during all of those days! (Laughter). This is all the Divine Romance, do you see? So the point is, service to the teacher may be in this way or in that way. But in any case, we should be ready always.

Purity Both External and Internal

Soucham means purity, both external and internal. Regarding external purity, yesterday evening Swami suddenly looked at a boy and said, “I know what you have done. I know. Where am I? I am everywhere. I know everything.” He went on talking like that. But how am I to know what it was about? Then suddenly I asked, “Swami, what?” He said, “This boy came for darshan and the moment I went inside, he ran away form here, had a shave, returned and sat there. I know what you have done.” He said, “Where am I? I know, I know! You have a clean shave now. You look better.” That’s what Bhagavan said.

So our dear God doesn’t want us to be shabby now. ln the name of spirituality, we cannot look ugly. We should not look dirty. We should be clean because cleanliness is godliness. The one who is not pure outside, how do you expect him to be pure inside? So purity within and without is absolutely necessary without any motivations.

About a pure heart - when those little chaps, the boys, were singing the day before yesterday, you must have heard it. They are having examinations right now and it has been a tradition all these years to receive blessings from Bhagavan just before the commencement of the final examinations. Swami gives them a chance to sing. When He gives a chance to the boys, the girls fight for their equal rights. So naturally, He allowed them to sing. And they all started singing very nicely.

At the end, He walked slowly and gently, peeked deeply into my eyes and said in this way, “How are their songs?” Shall I say, “Nice”? He will say, “No, no, no, no! (Laughter) Good children, you see? Whatever children sing, it will be nice.” If I say, “Bad”, He will say, “Come on, can you sing like that?” (Laughter) If I say, “Average”, He will say, “How do you know?” (Laughter) So I simply smiled and kept quiet, knowing the impending danger! (Laughter) Immediately what Bhagavan said was, “See! They have a pure heart. With that pure heart, their singing is bound to be melodious. Why? With a pure heart, whatever you do is pleasing unto God.”

“Oh-ho, Swami! Good.” So, it is the ultimate - purity.


We are reviewing these qualities, all of which are the qualities of a person who has known the Self. Next is Stairyam, which means steadiness. Suddenly Swami points out a college student: “He’s a good boy?” Shall I say, “Yes”? Then He’ll say, “How do you know as he’s not your student? He’s a student of commerce. You are a teacher in the department of biosciences. So, how do you know him?”

If I say, “I know him”, He will say, “Is that what you’re teaching there in the college, knowing everybody? (Laughter) Your business is not to know everybody. Your job is to teach.” So I cannot say that I know him. If I say, “I don’t know him”, Swami will say, “Don’t you know that much? You meet him every day here and see him!” So what shall I say?

All right, to err on the right side is much better, and also is less risky. So I said, “Swami, that boy is very good.” I thank my stars He did not say, “How do you know?” But what He said was this: “He’s good. Don’t say ‘VERY good’.” (Laughter) Oh-ho, I see! “Why not, Swami?” “He’s good, not very good.” “Why not?” Swami said, “He’s good, but at times, he’s just so-so. One day like this, another day like that. Good but…” So that ‘but’ is there! (Laughter) And that is a big ‘but’.

So, the point is we need to have steadiness. To quote Bhagavan, “Without bumps and jumps, without ups and downs, in times favorable and in times unfavorable, when you are in form or when you are out of form, you should be always uniform. Boys have got this word ‘form’. If Swami goes on talking to you, they will say, “Wow! Sir, so-and-so is in full form.” Oh-ho! When Swami stops talking to him, they will say, “Sir, he was in form till yesterday. Now from today, he’s out of form.” So these are the two words that are often used by college boys.

Then I tell them: Whether you are in form or out of form, be uniform. That is most important. That is steadiness. A form will one day come out of form. There’s no doubt about it. You will always have two surfaces - the obverse and the reverse of the same coin. “No, I want only the obverse.” Sorry, you will have to experience the reverse also! So steadiness during both these times is the quality of the knower of the Self.


Atma vinigraha means self-control: you control for the Self. The Self is uncontrollable - please understand! The Self is beyond control because the Self is infinite; the Self is so vast; the Self is eternal; the Self is immortal, nectarine, blemishless, hidden, unexpressed and beyond comprehension. So, self-control does not mean that you are controlling the Self, no, no, no! No one can control the Self as it is infinite, indefinite; indeterminate, and unfathomable. So, such a Self is not to be controlled. You control for the Self.

Unless there is control, the Self cannot be experienced. Control of what? It means control of the body, control of the senses, control of the mind, and control of the intellect. When you control these, the Self will manifest, the Self will start expressing itself. At the level of the mind, the Self is hidden. At the level of the body, the Self remains still deeper.

We may wear a coat, a shirt and a banian (t-shirt). Where is the body now? It is underneath these three. The coat has to be removed, then the shirt has to be removed, and finally the banian has to be removed. Only then you can see your chest. That’s what Bhagavan tells us. So, first the outer body, next the mind and lastly, the intellect - all three will have to be taken off so you can see your own Atma (represented by your chest). Similarly, self-control means control for the Self.

Detachment Toward Sense Objects

Then comes Indriyaardeshu vairagyam, which means dispassion or detachment toward the sense-objects. Bhagavan was talking yesterday. He asked one boy, “How many idlis (breakfast rice cakes) have you eaten?” The boy said, “Only four.” (Laughter) “Oh! Only four!” Then He looked at me smiling. I said, “Only four in the first installment, in the first consignment! (Laughter) Then after bhajan, the second consignment of only four. So Swami, we go on eating in installments, in batches of four or in battalions of four.”

And Swami commented “If I eat half an idli, My stomach is full.” I said, “Just as You cannot believe us needing to eat four at a time, we cannot believe that You need only this much. (Laughter) And this being summer, we feel like eating continuously because we feel exhausted and tired. If we start eating like You, well, I am sure that we’ll be no more tonight, this night itself! (Laughter) We’ll be that much nearer the grave!”

Bhagavan simply laughed and said, “But with all that, you should have control. You should have control over your food. You should have control over your speech and you should have control over your thoughts. If the thoughts are not under your control, the mind turns mad or insane. If you have no control over your talk, you lose your reverence, respect and dignity.

If you have no control over your food, your body becomes like a question mark. (Laughter) So then the body becomes disproportionate like a question mark, which is so ugly to look at. So, control over the body, the mind and the intellect are absolutely necessary to experience the true Self. That is detachment from the sense objects.

Without Any Ego

Anahamkarah means without any ego. Without any ego or self-praise, without any craze for recognition or any kind of desire for publicity, without any trace of identity - that is egolessness. Ego and pride are different and we shall think of it sometime later. One has to go deeper into the subject to know the difference between the pride and ego.

Ego is necessarily there in everyone. People will say, “I'm egoless.” It is your ego that makes you say that you are egoless! By saying so, you are more egoistic than the rest! (Laughter) So with ego, it is only the quantity that differs, but the quality is same. Just as you have got the asbestos sheets, just as you have got the tin sheets there in the store, you have got ego also, which can be measured: five inches thick, two inches thick, one inch thick, etc. But ego is there.

So the expression of ego may be different, the dimension of the ego may be different, the manifestation of the ego may be different, the ways of working of the ego in the in-built system of the human personality may be different, but ego is still there. Now spirituality calls for egolessness. It means the moment the ego is totally gone the body becomes light.

Simply Swami says: So long as the football is inflated, what do you do? Kick it nicely, kick as many times as possible! The more you kick it, the more points you will have. When once the same football is deflated, when the air is taken out, what do you do? You’ll collect the football with both of your hands. You cannot kick it because there is no air inside. So instead you have to collect it with both of your hands. Similarly, an egoless man is respected, while everyone kicks the egoistic fellow.

The Cycle of Changes

Janma Mrithyu Jaravyadhi
Dukha Doshamu Darsanaam

You should have a clear picture or idea, understanding and awareness of the cycle of changes that happen in our lifetime. In our lifetime we pass through certain cyclic changes. The birth itself is agonizing; it is painful. Though we distribute sweets, the newborn babe starts crying, “Why have I come to this world again?

Punarapi Jananam, Punarapi Maranam
Punarapi Janani Jatare Sayanam

“Why is it that I'm born time and time again?” The newborn babe cries for being born again, for being a visitor to this cosmos once again. On the other hand, we are very happy that a baby is born. When the baby doesn’t cry, the doctors will make the baby cry. Why? If the baby doesn’t cry, it means that it is a given-up case, a gone case. So, they should cry. So, as Bhagavan says, birth itself is a matter of worry.

Then there is jara, meaning old age. In the old age, we are totally dependent. The one who has been walking on two legs so far now needs a walking stick - three legs! And when that is also useless, he wants to have two people so that he can put his hands on their shoulders, to be literally carried. He becomes like a centipede, a millipede, what not! A hexapod or octopus - the one with eight feet or ten feet, whatever you may call it. It is disgusting!

In old age, the ears refuse to hear and the mind refuses to think. It starts forgetting things. The body in the old age wants to eat everything but the doctors say, “Eat nothing.” He wants to go everywhere but he cannot go anywhere. It is a sort of a punishment. So birth is painful and old age is again painful.

Sickness - better we do not speak about it. Sickness is a matter of luxury in the West. You cannot afford to lie down on the bed in the West because all the money that you have earned till then has to be used to pay your medical bill! So sickness is very painful and expensive. We will be disowned and disliked by everybody.

You Came To My Rescue

Bhagavan was telling us this story only yesterday evening. It seems a Muslim boy from the same district, about five hours’ drive from here, was suffering from a heart problem and his parents said, “An operation is highly expensive. We can’t help you.” His uncles came and said with twinkling eyes, “We can't help you”, though they were rich enough. Those who could afford to help all said, “We are sorry.” Nobody came to his help. Bhagavan said this only yesterday evening.

It seems that someone from the neighborhood came and said, “Don’t worry! Don’t feel isolated. There is the living God, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Go to Him. He’ll help you.” That Muslim boy, in full faith of what he had heard, came to Bangalore and he was operated upon successfully. He was discharged on the third day and started walking. Then he wrote a letter to Bhagavan, which Bhagavan has showed us yesterday. It said, “Bhagavan, nobody came to my rescue. Nobody understood my problem and no one sympathized. No one was ready to part with their money. At that time, You came to my rescue.”

Bhagavan says, “Why fear when I am here? I look to you if you look to Me. Why do you doubt Me? Why would I neglect you?”

“You have come to my rescue! Swami, how am I to pay my gratitude? How am I to express my gratitude to You? Swami, after all, only this much I can do. Permit me to come to Prashanti Nilayam once every week and serve You in any way I can, in the way I can best use my ability.”

That’s what Swami has told us in a joking voice. Our Divine Lord is touched, emotionally touched, while narrating this experience. So God is the only refuge for the forlorn.

Nahi, Nahi, Nahi Rakshati
Dukrun Karane
Matha Nasti, Pitha Nasti,
Nasti Bandhuscha Sahodhara.

“No father, no mother, no brother, no family - nobody will come to you. Not even your scholarship or wealth can help you. Only God is with you.” That’s what He said. So we should have this clear understanding.

'Goodbye' With a Smile on the Face

Death always stands there at the gate. Death threatens us every moment. It was said by a great saint that those who are after money have the highest rate of fear of death. Because they have fear of death, they want to have money, thinking that money will come to their rescue. So, amassing wealth is the quality of a person who is fear-stricken about death. That’s what He said. Let us find out the inherent, innate threat there. Then you will understand that there is nothing to worry about.

Dukha Doshamu Darsanaam

Dosha - the mistake lies over there - beware and aware of it. A sage is always like that. He is ready to withdraw the body. The knower of the Self, the one who knows the Self, will say goodbye to this world. He’ll say, “Fine! Thank you for all that you have given during my life’s sojourn. I'm so happy that God has given me this chance. Goodbye, I take leave from you.”

I request you to go through the book entitled “The Prophet”, written by Kahlil Gilbran. In the beautiful book The Prophet (which has sold as many copies as the Holy Bible, as per the records) Gilbran says that the dying man should say, “Farewell, ta-ta, goodbye, I am going.” Not with tears, but with a smile on his face. Having been born on this earth with tears, we should leave this world with smiles. That is the purpose of life, the philosophy of life and the goal of life. After all, that’s what life tells you. Let us have a thorough understanding of this.

Not Attached To Anybody

Then there is Putradara Grihadishu, which means that you are not attached to anybody - not to the family or to anybody. After all, wife, child, relations, friends, all the attachments and all the connections we have had are all accidental and incidental, that’s all. Before marriage, who was she? She became your wife only after marriage. After that marriage, so-and-so is born to you. Prior to that, who is who?
So this relationship is just incidental, a coincidence, just accidental. It has got nothing to do with the true Self. There is no connection between one Self to the other Self because the Self is only One. I cannot say, “Your Self and my Self.” There is nothing like that! There cannot be ‘your Self’ and ‘my Self’ and ‘our Selves’. That is all grammar. That’s all English grammar.
When I say ‘myself’, I refer to my body. When I say 'yourself’, it means your body. ‘Ourselves’ means everybody. But this true Self is not anything to do with myself, yourself and ourselves because the true Self is only One. For example, I cannot say, “My air, your air, and our air.” Then you will say, “Thank you, but this is not your place. There is a mental hospital over there!” (Laughter) So, there cannot be ‘your air’ and ‘my air’. Similarly, there cannot be your Self and my Self. The Self is only One.

Nothing Like Interest

Asakthi means that there is nothing like interest. Things just happen. If you are rich enough, it is good. If you have moderate income, it is better. If you have got just enough money to carry on, that is best. Let things happen. I'm not interested in being rich. I'm not interested in being affluent. I do not concentrate all my attention on how to become rich overnight. No! That’s more dangerous! So, if things happen, fine.

There’s one character in Indian Vedanta, in Indian epics, by the name of Janaka. Janaka was the king, though he had nothing like the feeling of a king. There was nothing like the ego - the feeling and emotion of being a king. He was detached, above all these things. So, he’s called Raja Rishi, meaning he was a sage among the kings. That is asakhti.

Non-Identification of Self with Persons or Things

Anabhishangah means non-identification of the Self with persons or things. There are some people, like our parents or our friends, who say, "If you win, it amounts to my victory. If you lose, it is equal to my failure." It means your happiness is in the hands of the other man.
Please be aware of this. If I'm happy within myself, I'm a religious man. If I'm happy with you, I'm a worldly man. If there is this question of the other, you’re irreligious. On the other hand, you should be happy with yourself, not with the other. "I'm happy when you come to me." Well, that means my happiness is in your hands. When I'm unhappy if you don’t come to me, then my unhappiness is in your hands.

Let us not be in anybody’s hands. There is no question of the other. I'm happy within myself. I'm happy with myself. This is true philosophy.


Then there is Ishtanishtopapathishu, which means let me not have certain things that are not desirable. I should not ask for undesirable things. I should not expect them. I should have equal-mindedness. Even if some undesirable things happen, I should have that kind of mental balance.

Swami was speaking yesterday about this balanced state of mind. If anyone says, “Swami, I'm suffering from stomachache,” He says, “Santosham, very good.” If anyone says, “My grandmother died,” He says “Santosham, very good.” There is nothing like pain or sorrow, nothing! He’s always happy, equal-minded. That is our true nature, Sath-chith-anand. Bliss is our true nature. This is possible only when we are equal-minded.

Constant Awareness Linked with God

Mayichandanya Yogena means that there is a kind of constant awareness or devotional feeling linked with God always. Here is a simple example. When Bhagavan grants an interview, He will say, “How are you?” Then He’ll call you for a special interview. He talks and says something to your wife, something to you, something about your children, something of your past - those unknown secrets, those registers are brought out now! So, the whole thing comes under evaluation, like an income tax assessment, and then you’re completely given a thorough, clean wash within a couple of seconds. Then He will start speaking on philosophy and spirituality.

An interview is only an excuse to give you a view of the true Self. Interview is the in-view of the Self, to keep in view the Self. Interview is only an excuse. When the Self is always in view, I have no craze for an interview. So the point is - keep the Self always in view. This is the main thing that He said.


Vivikthadesa Sevithwa refers to the desire to be alone. A spiritual man always wants to be in solitude. He prefers aloneness. Please note that I said ‘aloneness’, not ‘loneliness’. Loneliness and aloneness are quite different. Loneliness is a punishment, whereas aloneness is preferable. Loneliness is worldly, while aloneness is spiritual. Loneliness is psychological and mental; aloneness is religious and philosophical. Loneliness is imposed, while aloneness is preferred and chosen. So, a spiritual man wants to be alone.

What do you mean by ‘aloneness’? We all sit in a crowd; we sit on the verandah; we are sitting on the steps; we sit in darshan lines - so how can we be alone? My friends, aloneness or being in a crowd has got nothing to do with numbers. I'm alone after completing my talk. When all of you go, I will sit alone but I’ll be thinking of all of you: “I gave a talk from 10 to 11AM. The hall was full, so many heard.” Ah-re-re-re! All of you are in my head now! So, I may be alone physically but I'm in a crowd psychologically.

Similarly, when I am in a crowd, many people may surround me. But I’ll be thinking of Swami throughout, so I am alone. So, aloneness or being in a crowd is psychological, not physical. Bhagavad Githa wants you to be alone psychologically, not physically. That is important.

Distaste For the Society of Men

Then there is Arathir Janasam Sadi, which means ‘distaste for the society of men’. What does this mean? Does it mean to condemn society? Or to run away from society or to feel that one is superior to society? No, no, no! Distaste for society refers to all this indulgence in worldly issues and worldly matters.

A few people gather and talk about the price of Dharmavaram silk saris: “What is the difference in the price of a sari in the store here and in the store outside?” Well, that is not a thing of interest for the spiritual man. He just won’t be interested: “I have not come here to learn the price index of the saris here.”

So, distaste for the society means distaste for the talk, the gossip, the unnecessary things; distaste for socializing; distaste for the mundane, worldly issues and matters that often creep into our discussions, dialogues and conversations.

Constancy of Self-knowledge

Then there is Adhyatma Jnana Nitya Thwam. What does it mean? It signifies the constancy of Self-knowledge: I always think of the Self. I always read about the Self. I always talk about the Self. Everything centers round the Self. That is awareness. Bhagavan calls it ‘Constant Integrated Awareness’ or CIA. CIA does not stand for the intelligence agency of the United States of America. CIA means ‘Constant Integrated Awareness’.

So, that awareness is absolutely required. Whatever we talk, whatever we think, whenever we meet, the Self should be the topic of interest. It should not be, “When did you get your last interview?” It should not be when I got an interview, or when I was visiting in that country, or when I…” Please stop that! Please don’t talk anything about the common ‘I’. Talk anything about the Self, which is the same in you and in me! That is supreme, ever lasting, immortal, and eternal. Not this small ego self, the boastful self. No, no, no! I want that eternal Self. That is what this means.

Perception of the True End of Knowledge

Next is Tatwa Jnardhadarsanam. What does it mean? It signifies the perception of the true end of knowledge: that I should attain Divinity, that I should experience Divinity. Bhagavan was saying just the day before yesterday, “What is spirituality?” My friends, no man has ever given such a definition till this day. No book has got this definition till this moment. “What is spirituality?”

Baba made three points: Kill the animal in you. This means kill the animal behavior in you, things like ego, pride, jealousy, possessiveness and attachment. They are animal qualities. Develop the human qualities. Improve the human qualities in you. What are the human qualities? Compassion, sacrifice, truth, concern, forbearance. Experience the Divine in you. Kill the animal in you, develop the man in you and be one with God in you. These three are the points, which constitute a beautiful, comprehensive definition for spirituality, one that anyone can think of and understand.

Baba’s Divine Utterances

I know the time is almost over. But I cannot take leave from you without mentioning at least the highlights of the conversations that we had there on the verandah with Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba during the most recent days.

Last year we were so fortunate to have Divine dialogue with Him; but this year it has been a consistent ‘summer’ (referring to the summer season in Puttaparthi, when Swami is absent) since His arrival in June. We never had any chance to interact with Him except for the last couple of days, when He has been interacting with us a lot. I’ll mention the highlights. Because of the time limitations, I may not go into the details, but still these points I mention should be in our constant memory. Let us see to what extent I can share with you this morning.

God Is Everywhere

God is everywhere. Every religion declares this; everyone knows this. The other day, we studied about 'that':

Sarvata Paani Paadam Tat
Sarvota Chi Siromukham,

That’s what He said. So, the Divine is everywhere. This is the declaration of the Upanishads. So the meaning is God is everywhere. But how does Baba explain this? Well, Divinity is beyond your estimate. Swami uses the words: apramana, aprameya, and ananta. Apramana means beyond all measure. Aprameya means beyond your understanding and expression. Ananta means infinite, beyond all measure, beyond the norms of your estimate and experience, beyond your understanding, beyond your expression. It is infinite.

“So Swami, when it is beyond my expression, how can I express about it? So is it better not to express? Is that right? (Since I cannot get 100% marks, better I don’t appear for examination? Is that right?) As it is beyond my comprehension, shall I stop thinking?” This is the question put to Him.

When the times are favorable and God is merciful, when everything is congenial and everyone has got the keen interest to know, He confers on you certain chances to ask questions. Till then, for our own safety, better we remain silent. Finding the Divine mood quite favorable, I picked up courage and asked.

“If it cannot be understood, if it cannot be expressed, if it cannot be thought of, what shall I do now?” Please understand - these are the answers that you do not find in any book; these are the explanations that you do not find from any other person talking along these lines, except our latest God, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Well, what did He say?

God Is the Supporter

“You speak because God is the speech in you. There are dumb people, speechless people. Being dumb, they cannot speak. You are able to speak. It is not your tongue that speaks. No, God in you makes the tongue to speak. So, God is the supporter of your speech, and yet beyond your speech.”

Ah-ha! So He is the supporter of your sight. You see - it is not the eyes that see. There is the seer who sees. Many blind people have eyes. But can they see? No. The seer sees; it is not the eyes. Eyes are only windows, instruments. God is the mind of the mind, the eye of the eyes, and the tongue of the tongue. So He is the mind and He is also beyond the mind. He is the sight but also beyond the sight. He is the speech but also beyond the speech. God is everywhere. What a wonderful thing! This is all supported by the ancient texts.

The second question: “Swami, oh I see. He is the speech but beyond. He’s the vision but beyond. He’s audition but beyond. But how can I know that? How to know that?”

Then Baba said the second point: “When once you feel that God is in you, with you, above you, below you, around you, that gives an experience that God is everywhere.” In His discourses, Swami says repeatedly, “God is in you, with you, above you, below you, and around you.” When I miss one, He will immediately prompt me, much to your entertainment and to my embarrassment. (Laughter) So the point is that the moment you have the feeling that He’s everywhere - in you, with you, above you, below you, and around you - that is the best way to know that God is everywhere.

What Is Illusion?

“Swami, then why don’t I know that? When God is everywhere, why don’t I know that He’s everywhere? Why?” Then He said, “You are under illusion. You are in delusion or maya, so you are not about to see Him.” Oh-oh! Where is that maya? We have got very good surgeons. They will nicely operate so that maya can be cut out immediately. When they remove an appendix, when there is a kidney transplant, a brain transplant or a heart transplant, can't they manage to remove this maya also? It must be quite simple.

Then Baba said, “What is illusion? To think that one is present though one is really not there is maya. When a non-existent thing or person is felt to have been in existence, that is maya.”
“Swami, non-existence? Ah-re! I don’t understand. If I were that intelligent, things would have been different. I may look as if I am intelligent, but it is not so. So, I don’t understand. What is it?”

Then Bhagavan gave an example: It is twilight time, around 6:30 PM in the evening. Nothing is clearly visible, but yet it is not absolutely dark. There on the way you say, “A snake!” Ah! Sometimes when we go for evening walks, we see a snake on the way. That’s why they say the path is closed after 7:30 PM. They don’t want us to take the risk and unnecessarily put Swami to test, whether He will remove the snake or not! (Laughter)

So the point is, we may find a snake along the way. We’re afraid of the snake, yes. But you want to see it clearly; you want to verify what type of snake it is. So you ask your friend, “Take a torch, shine it on that and see.” Then you see that it is not a snake; it is only a rope! Now you have no fear. When you thought it was a snake, you were afraid of it. On verification, when you know it is only a rope, you have no more fear.

So the fear and fearlessness are in you only. At one time you are fearful; later you are fearless. Fear and fearlessness, both are in you only! There was no snake before and the snake has not run away now. There was only the rope then and now also. I thought at one time it was a snake, so I was afraid. Later on, after verification, I knew that it was not a snake. So now I am comfortable. This change has taken place in me. A non-existent snake, a non-existent thing, is felt to have been in existence. That’s what maya is. Actually it was only a rope, but I thought it was a snake. That is maya. That’s the definition He has given.

You Are the World

Swami said, “You are the world.” “I am the world? I see. How is it possible? You have so many people. I think that YOU are the world! How can I say, ‘I'm the world’? Swami, how is it possible?”
Then Baba said, “Close your eyes. What do you find? A void. Everything is an abyss, emptiness. Everything is absolutely dark. When once you open your eyes, you find this plurality; you find this variety; you find this diversity; you find this multiplicity. Diversity, plurality, multiplicity, they all come when once you open your eyes. The moment you close your eyes, there is only One. Then there’s darkness, that’s all; sunya or emptiness.

So, all of you come into being when I begin to see you. When I close my eyes, no one is present here. Thus understand that you are the world. When you are not there, the world is also not there. The world is also not there when once this ‘I’ is gone – there is no world. Therefore, you are the world.” That’s what Bhagavan has said.

Then, “Swami, alright, if I am the world, why do I suffer? If I am the world, do I do anything to make myself suffer? Why do I suffer? When I'm the world, why do I enjoy and why do I experience pain? Why?”

Baba said, “Happiness or sorrow, good or bad, come to you because of your interaction with the outer world. Everything will come back to you because of three factors - reaction, reflection, and resound. If you stand before a mirror and say, “Sai Ram”, the image you see will also say with both hands, “Namaskar”. If I say (threateningly), “I’ll take care of you!” the image will also say, “We’ll meet outside!” (Laughter) So, as is the object, so is the reflection. As is the sound, so is the resound.

I think it will be uncharitable if I continue further because darshan lines may be formed quite soon and you still have to go to the canteen and have your lunch. I beg to be excused for the ten minutes more that I have taken. There is much more to be shared and much more to be said to all of you. This gives me the greatest delight during this lifetime. Thank you very much for your patient listening! (Applause)

Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya

Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti

Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!

Thank You!

Sai Ram.

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