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  Anil Kumar's Sunday Satsang at Prasanthi Nilayam
February 17, 2002

The Sunday Talk Given by Professor Anil Kumar

"This, That and Both" - Part 1

February 17, 2002


Sai Ram to all of you!

With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,

Dear Brothers and Sisters!

This week I have chosen the topic: "This, That and Both"

"This, That and Both" is the title of the topic to be dealt with this morning. The whole talk is based on chapter 13 of the Bhagavad Githa, called “Kshetra Ksehtrajna Vibhaga Yoga”. I am not going to make it technical. I am not going to use Sanskrit jargon and frighten you, no! We will try to understand it as simply as possible, the way Bhagavan puts it during His discourses.

These are all points dealt with by Bhagavan during His Divine discourses in the past. The cassettes are available and you must have gone through the books too. Hence, those of you who are familiar with Bhagavan’s discourses will certainly understand that this talk is merely a repetition of what He has said earlier.

Long back, in the year 1989, Bhagavan went to Ooty, in the state of Tamil Nadu, where there was a school. The campus where Bhagavan stayed was called “Nandanavanam”. Most interestingly, Bhagavan wanted the boys to discuss a topic of common interest. After all they were tenth class boys and, though you may not believe this, they all got up and said, “Bhagavan, we will discuss on the topic, ‘Science and Spirituality’.” Tenth class fellows! I was very surprised. The discussion was very good that evening.

The place where Bhagavan stayed was the palace built and owned by Dalhousie, the Viceroy of England. The Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust had acquired that. In that beautiful wooden palace, the boys participated enthusiastically on this topic, ‘Science and Spirituality’. The discussion was followed by Bhagavan’s discourse on “Science and Spirituality”, which I wanted to share with you this morning.

Science and Spirituality

There is a combination of only two in the world: ‘this’ and ‘that’. There’s nothing more than this, that’s all! ‘This’ is what you call science, and ‘that’ is what you call spirituality. The worldly people limit themselves to ‘this’, or science only. Seekers, aspirants, sages, saints, seers, and theists - they all seek ‘that’, what you call ‘spirituality’. But we, as Sai devotees, let us understand that both ‘this’ and ‘that’ are one. Ultimately we’ll come to know that. So ‘this’ is science and ‘that’ is spirituality. But ‘Both are one’ is the reality.

Let us discuss a few points as put forward by Bhagavan. What is science? Science is the study; science is the observation; science is knowledge, which is below the senses, below the level of the senses. All that you see, all that you hear, all that you touch, all that you smell - all of those are relating to the sense organs. Below senses is science: ‘this’ is below senses, whereas ‘that’ is above senses, or beyond senses. The eye cannot see, the ear cannot hear, the skin cannot touch, and neither can the nose ever smell ‘that’. So ‘that’ is above senses.

As Bhagavan calls it, this science is the split of love. So, split of love is science, whereas the spirit of love is spirituality.

Then Bhagavan speaks of a third point. Science, after all, is incomplete. However well we may study, however deeply we might investigate, however clearly we might inquire into it, yet science is always incomplete. Why? What science declared sometime ago is denied today. What science invents today will be negated tomorrow. It only means that science is not constant. Science goes on changing depending upon the equipment available on hand and the understanding of the mind.

So science is incomplete like the letter ‘C’. ‘C’ begins there and ends there, with the hollow cavity, with the hollow space inside. So science is incomplete, whereas spirituality is like the letter ‘O’, which is full: “Poorna Madah, Poorna Midam.” That is full. So, spirituality is fullness. It is never incomplete.

Science speaks of ‘thwam’ i.e. 'you', whereas spirituality speaks of ‘that’, ‘thath’. ‘Thath’ is ‘that’. ‘Thwam’ is ‘this’. So science is thwam, while spirituality is thath. The scientist goes on thinking of this creation, the world, whereas the spiritual man thinks of the Creator behind it. There cannot be any effect without the cause. After all, life is the combination of cause and effect. Scientists think of the effect, while the spiritual man thinks of the cause.

Science Is Like Scissors That Cut

Science, as Bhagavan says, is like a pair of scissors that cuts and divides. Today we have basic sciences, super sciences, and super specialties. I do not remember whether I gave this example to you or not…anyway, it is worth recalling. A person with a dental problem, a toothache, went to a doctor in Bombay. “Oh Doc! I'm suffering from toothache.” And the doctor asked, “OK, which jaw? Upper jaw or lower jaw?” The patient said, “Oh doctor, my lower jaw teeth are paining.” The doctor said, “I'm sorry. I'm a specialist in the upper jaw. Go to the next dentist.” (Laughter)

So, the patient goes to the other dentist and says, “Hi, Doctor! I know you’re a specialist and my teeth are giving me a lot of pain.” That gentleman asked, “OK, I'm a specialist; but I want to know if it is the front teeth or the teeth behind, the incisors or the molars that are bothering you?" "Well, Doctor, it is the back teeth that are paining.” “I am sorry, I am an expert in the front teeth only. So, go next door.”

So like this, specialization and super-specialization land us in confusion. That’s what science is - a scissors. Just as scissors help us to cut, to divide, science divides, whereas a needle stitches together small pieces. Take the example of a tailor. You take a cloth to your tailor. The tailor will just cut them into pieces and with the help of the needle, stitch them all together making them into a shirt. Am I clear? Likewise, a needle stitches pieces into a single garment. Spirituality is like a needle, while science is like scissors.

Science is something like becoming. You become a scientist; you are not born a scientist. You become a scientist because of your interest and inquisitiveness. That is all. You are not born a scientist. No one is ever born a scientist. So, science is becoming, whereas you are the very being. You are spiritual. Your very being is existential. You are existence. You are the very being, you are not becoming.

Science is a matter of questioning: I go on questioning, “Why, what, where, when, how?” Science must necessarily answer all these questions. So, science is a matter of eternal questions! I go on questioning in order to know the basic facts of life.

But spirituality is not a question. It is a quest - a quest meaning a search, a quest - to inquire, a quest - a meditation, a quest - contemplation. A quest is a search, infinite and indefinite. So, while science is a question, spirituality is a quest. These are all the points that Bhagavan made.

Explanation and Exclamation

Science gives you an explanation. A burning splinter burns brilliantly in the presence of oxygen. Why does it burn? Because of oxygen. Why does it not? Because of hydrogen. Everything has got an explanation. Science should give an explanation. And if it does not explain, it cannot be scientific. If it is scientific, it requires an explanation. Science and explanation go together. That which cannot be explained is not science at all.

But spirituality is not explanation. It is an exclamation, with wonder and awe, a thrill, full of grandeur and excitement. It is not given to any explanation. It is only exclamation: “AHH! I saw Swami! WOW!” That’s it. (Laughter) There’s no explanation. It is only exclamation!

In science, there is what we call a sort of experiment and inference. You do some experiment. On the basis of observation, you draw some inference. Science requires three things - experiment, observation and inference. “This is the experiment, these are my observations and this is my inference.” Spirituality is not like that. It is experience. Spirituality is experience - experience of the Reality. It is nothing like observation and inference, no!

Solved and Dissolved

In science, there is always a problem to be solved. If there is no problem, then there is no science at all. So, a scientist is always after one problem or another and he becomes problematic. So, a scientist is problematic, while science is a problem. Why? It was Einstein who said, “I don’t want to be born again as a scientist. If I am to be born again, I would like to be born as a carpenter.” He was very ashamed of his inventions, his scientific research and the theories on atom bombs, which caused the destruction of a large number of people. He felt ashamed of his career as a scientist.

So the point is, science is a problem to be solved. But spirituality is not like that. It is a mystery wherein you get dissolved. Something is solved: there in science, while you are dissolved here in spirituality. You do not exist there in spirituality!

Bhagavan passes by along the darshan line. He looks at you, you look at Him. There is a smile, an exchange of looks - ah! That’s all. “Wow! What happened to you?” “Well, I don’t know what happened!” (Laughter) Before you had a castor oil face then. But when Swami looks, your face starts burning like a thousand candles or bulbs. Why? That’s it; there’s no explanation.

So the point is, spirituality is a mystery to be dissolved, not a problem to be solved like in science. You dissolve. As Bhagavan talks to us, as Bhagavan grants an interview, the kind of thrill we have, the way we walk, the way the face shines brilliantly with all its radiance - well, it is all because you got dissolved!

After the interview, as devotees come out of the interview room and start sharing their experiences, watch their faces. They forget what they are - their accomplishments, their positions, they forget all. They go on explaining things; they go on telling, “See, He saw us from there. We started walking over there. He just wanted…” “Ah, I see!” Why? He got himself dissolved. There is no question of 'I-ness' here. There is no question of ego here. There is no question of identity here. There is no question of body identification or position, consciousness or personality awareness, no, no! You got dissolved, that’s it. So science is just what we call - it needs to be solved. Spirituality requires to be dissolved.

Manifest and Unmanifest

Then what is science? Science is manifestation. I find the table, I find the mike; you see me and I see you. We are all with forms and names. All those who are created, all those that are in existence have their names and forms. This is what is called, ‘Life manifest’. It means that there is the current (electricity), which is unmanifest, while there is the mike that is manifest. There is current unmanifest, while light is manifest. So the unmanifest is what we call spirituality. Life unmanifest is spirituality. Life manifest is science. One sees the scene and the other sees the seer. That is the difference.

And then, science sometimes says, “Yes” and sometimes says, “No”. One scientist says, “This is the point.” The other scientist says, “I am sorry, but there is another point.” So, there are arguments and counter-arguments. There are thoughts and counter-thoughts. They are agreeable and disagreeable. All of them agree to disagree! In other words, science is full of thesis and anti-thesis, acceptance and negation, denial and acceptance. But spirituality is not like that. It is synthesis. Thesis and anti-thesis are the components of science, while spirituality is synthesis.

If someone says, “This is my experience” I cannot say, “You are wrong" or "You are right". If someone says, “Sir, this is what I dreamt” I cannot say, “Your dream is wrong” because it is your dream. Who am I to say, “No”? So, I cannot deny your dream. You cannot question my dream. The way I understand Bhagavan is different from the way you understand Bhagavan. So I cannot question your understanding. Likewise, my understanding cannot be negated or denied by you. It means it is all true. Your understanding, your dream, your way of comprehension, your way of analysis - all are one. So spirituality is synthesis and totality, whereas science is thesis and anti-thesis.

Bound / Beyond Time and Space

Next, time and space bind science. In physics and chemistry, they will all say, “Depending on the temperature and pressure, equal volumes of gases, under equal conditions of temperature and pressure, contain equal number of molecules." Oh-ho! Temperature and pressure is mentioned there. So every scientific law is bound by pressure and by temperature, and is limited by time and space. But spirituality is beyond time and beyond space.

A simple example: Long, long ago Bhagavan materialized a gold chain. Well, what He did was He took that chain very close to the Siva Lingam. You know what Siva Lingam is…an idol, a Siva Lingam, yes? Swami just put up the chain to the Siva Lingam. It got stuck to it. No chain can get stuck to a stone. Just try it; you can try it. You cannot keep, attach or fix your chain to any stone, no! It drops off immediately. If you want to take the risk, you can do it. So, normally a chain will never get stuck to stone. It is impossible.

In those days, there was a scientist by the name of Dr. Bhagavantham. This Dr. Bhagavantham asked, “Swami, I am a physicist. The Siva Lingam, after all, is a stone. And the chain you materialized is made of gold. How is it that it got stuck to that stone?” Baba laughed and said, “Instead of questioning like that, you can think this way: "The One who can materialize, can also make it get stuck! (Laughter) The One who materialized by way of the hand, can’t He see to it that it gets stuck to that stone? Do you still doubt it?” This man understood that Baba is beyond science and he came to his senses! Once we understand that Baba is beyond science, we will come to our senses. No temperature can do anything.

Long, long ago, one American - a very busy photographer/cameraman from Hollywood in the United States - came here because of the pressure from his wife. You know in Sai Era, a very funny thing is that husbands are driven or drawn by their wives. So wives are the engines, while husbands are the compartments. (Laughter) We may not openly agree, but this is the universally-known truth, fact, and a very public truth. So wives do not keep quiet unless husbands follow them.

Rainbow On a Hot Summer Day

So this Hollywood actor, who was also a writer and a director, was forced to be here. He had told his friends back in the USA before coming, “If I am to accept Bhagavan Baba like my wife does, I shall ask Swami to create a rainbow for me! Such a thing could not possibly drop out of His sleeve. I should experience something like that and then I will be convinced of Swami’s genuineness.”

One day after arriving here, this gentleman and his wife climbed up on a close-by hill. They sat there watching the whole scene, seeing in all directions from the top. It was daytime, around 11:30 AM. It was very, very bright. Suddenly they saw a rainbow in the sky. But it was not the ordinary, curving type of a rainbow. It went straight up into the sky and then started dissolving slowly from the bottom up while they were looking at it!

Well, after seeing that rainbow, he was wonder-struck. “Wow! I had not spoken to anyone about my desire. Baba brought this!” They were wonder-struck. Immediately they came down and joined the darshan line. The next morning, Swami came over to him and said with a big smile, “Well, how did you like My rainbow?”

Slowly, slowly, slowly Bhagavan gives time, a long rope to hang on to! So, this man also stood in the darshan line. Immediately he got an interview. Such people will get an interview immediately because they doubt. (Laughter) Those that have accepted Him, they don’t need an interview because they have already accepted Baba as God. So those who don’t have interviews can have the satisfaction that they are already confirmed, declared devotees. (Laughter) You are already declared and confirmed. You don’t need to be specially called; it is not necessary! You don’t need to be converted. You don’t need to be transformed. You don’t need to be convinced. You know Baba is God, so why interview again? When you are healthy, why do you need a doctor? You need a doctor because of BP problem, blood pressure problem. When your health is normal, OK!

So similarly, this man got an interview. His wife also got one naturally, as the procedure is like that here. Well, when they were called in, Bhagavan materialized a fruit, a small fruit. Swami said, “You eat it.” Swami asked, “What fruit is this?” (Laughter) “Swami, I don’t know.” Then Bhagavan said, “This fruit is not available in this whole country. This type of fruit is not available during this time of the year, during this season. Come on, eat it.” That fellow started eating that fruit, and he started experiencing the sweetness, its taste, right from inside the stomach. Wow! Sweet, sweet, completely sweet! Why? It is because Baba is beyond time and space.

A Fruit Specially Materialized

A few months back, a Nagarjuna construction gentleman was here by the name of Raju. You must have seen him also. He is the Managing Director. He is in charge of the housing colony that is to come up here quite soon. Swami called him openly, there on the dais, materialized a fruit and asked him to eat it. Swami broke it into two halves, and gave one to the Vice Chancellor and one to this Raju. Had there been third piece, I would have been the lucky soul! (Laughter) But I was not.

So He gave one half to this man and one half to the other man. Both of them started eating, expressionless. (A.K. demonstrates munching on a fruit.) They were not talking verbally, no. Then Swami asked this Raju, “What is this fruit? How is it?” Raju said, “Bhagavan, I went around India. I had recently been to Kashmir. I had been to Badri and Kedar (holy pilgrimage places, high in the Himalayas). I went on this pilgrimage. I saw all sorts of fruit, but not this type of fruit.”

Swami said, "How could you see it there when it is not found anywhere? (Laughter) This is specially materialized for you. So, how is it?” The gentleman started explaining, “Swami, the sweetness will remain till tomorrow at least. (Laughter) This intensity of sweetness I have not ever experienced so far.”

How could Bhagavan materialize that fruit? How could Bhagavan materialize that fruit during the non-season? Why? Season and reason are for you and for me. Reason and season - well, they don’t have anything to do with Bhagavan. Bhagavan is beyond all that. So, time and space bind science; while spirituality is beyond time and space.

A couple of years ago, Bhagavan went on repeating this statement. I do not know how many of you heard it. Scientists say, “This is matter; this is energy. This is energy; this is matter.” But Bhagavan said, “Energy can be transformed into matter; matter can be converted into energy. Matter and energy are mutually transferable and mutually convertible. Matter is only energy, that’s all. Energy manifest is matter. Matter unmanifest is energy. Matter and energy are the reverse and the obverse of the same thing.”

Therefore, my friends, it is cosmic energy. It is Divine energy from the standpoint of spirituality. Whereas, from the point of science, this is matter, while that is energy. These two are different. According to the spiritual concept, they are one and the same.

The External and the Internal

Science requires intelligence. Science requires memory. Science requires timely action. One has to be alert. One has to be observant. He should be able to observe more and more all that has been happening. So science requires intelligence and observation. This is what is called ‘pravritthi’ or external activities. Pravritthi is always looking towards the external world. How are the elements functioning? What is this energy? What is electricity? What is heat? What are spacecrafts? Everything is outside.

Therefore, my friends, science is involved in the external world. It centers round the physical world. It is just the product of the head called ‘pravritthi’, whereas spirituality is an experience within. It has nothing to do with the head. It has got something to do with the heart. Spirituality starts giving you the experience at the level of the heart. Science helps you to investigate and to experiment with all that you think of in your mind. So, pravritthi is the mind, and nivritthi, the internal, is the heart. That is the difference between science and spirituality.

Then, ultimately what happens? I'm the scientist, why not? OK! Because you concentrate only on the world, because you think only of all the matter, you think of all convenience and comforts, so what happens? A scientist is highly egoistic. Many scientists think they know everything, though we know that they know nothing. After all, the scientist knows only a part of the Creation. He cannot claim himself to have known the whole, no! He knows only a little. It was Newton who said, “I'm like a child collecting pebbles, walking along the shore of the sea.” So a scientist knows only a fraction. He cannot claim to know everything, no! He is egoistic and possessive.

The scientist is possessive. Why? You find patenting today. People want to patent even basmati (high-quality) rice. Some day people may even patent the oxygen that we breathe. (Laughter) So this kind of possessiveness is just the quality of a scientist’s urge to dominate. Scientists want to dominate, yes! “Because I have these atom bombs, you have to surrender to me. Because we have got the unmanned spacecraft, which can bomb and put to death thousands of people, let me dominate.” So the scientist wants to dominate. He has the spirit of ego and pride. Then also he wants to dictate terms to others. He is highly, utterly, totally selfish. There may be some exceptions, but the majority of the scientific people are like this.

A Spiritual Person Is Always Humble

On the other hand, the one of spirituality is always humble. A spiritual man, a religious man, is always humble. You must have seen the photographs of Mother Teresa, the Nobel Laureate, the Mother who served millions of forlorn people. How humble she was! She bowed down with folded hands and went into the palace to see the Pope in Rome. And then with folded hands, she bent down to receive the Nobel Prize.

After all, what was the property of Mother Teresa at the time of death? Do you know? Two plastic buckets, one plastic mug and two pairs of clothes. That’s all; nothing more. All the cars that she received, she sold them and gave to the Sisters of Charity Association. So, humility is the hallmark of a religious person.

Equanimity - It means he is not puzzled. The bumps and jumps in life do not toss him. He maintains a spirit of equanimity and he has got the spirit of equality. He does not consider himself superior to anyone. Equality, equanimity and humility are the features of a religious man. Plus he’s ready to sacrifice anything, even his life for that matter.

So my friends, ‘this’ is science; ‘that’ is spirituality. Such was the topic on which Bhagavan gave a discourse in the year 1989 in Ooty (Uttagamangalam - the full name of Ooty) to the schoolchildren there. I still very well remember that pleasant evening.

The Body Is Composed of Elements

Bhagavad Githa also helps us to know ‘this’ and ‘that’, which is very clearly given in Chapter 13. ‘This’, yes, this! This is the body. What is its nature? What are you composed of? This means what? (Anil Kumar chants a sloka from the Bhagavad Githa:)

Mahabhutani Ahamkaro Buddhir Avyaktam Eva Cha,
Indranidasaikancha Pancha Chendriya Gochara.

This is the statement in Bhagavad Githa. Clearly it is said: ‘Mahabhutani’. The body is composed of five great elements. Kindly go through Bhagavan Baba’s discourses given to students during the summer. During summer, you have lectures on Indian Culture and Spirituality by Bhagavan every evening. One time He dealt at length on this subject.

Mahabhutani: the body is composed of five elements. There is air outside; there is air inside: the breathing process. There is space outside; there is space inside. There is fire outside; there is fire inside. All the five elements you find outside are also in you. The body is made up of the five elements: earth, fire, space, air, and water. These five elements are present there in the body - Mahabhutani meaning, the five elements.

Ahamkaara: ego. Ego! “Who are you?” “I am so and so.” “Where do you come from?” “I come from that place.” “What are you?” “I am so-and-so.” So, this kind of 'I-ness' is ego. If this 'I-ness' is not there, if this life is not there, we are just plastic dolls in a cloth showroom. So this kind of ego introduces one’s own self as, “I am so-and-so.”

Buddhi Avyaktam Eva Cha: ‘Buddhi’ means intellect. So there is not only ego, but intellect also. If there were only ego without intellect, one would act like a male buffalo. A he-buffalo! (Anil Kumar imitates the grunting of a buffalo) “Humm, humm!” That’s all! (Laughter)

Kindly go through what Bhagavan has said in Sathya Sai Speaks, Volume I. If you just beat the he-buffalo with a cane, the he-buffalo will say, “Humm, humm’, which means ‘Hum, hum’ or (in Sanskrit this means): ‘I, I, I’ or ego. Now when that skin of the he-buffalo is taken, with all the nerves removed, you make strings of the violin with it. When you play it, it won’t say, “Hum.” It will say, “Tum, tum” (which in Sanskrit means): ‘You, you, you’. So, it changes from ‘hum’ to ‘Tum’. The difference is only because of the flesh; it is because of the ego.

Avyaktam Eva Cha. ‘Avyaktam’: In this body with the five elements, there is a hidden principle. That is individual soul, the individual spirit, which will make all this function, which will make all of this operate. So that is Avyaktam Eva Cha. Moola Prakritthi: the fundamental principle - that is what you call individual consciousness or individual soul. That is Ahamkaara.

There Are Ten Senses

Indriyanida Dasekancha, Pancha Chendriya Gocharah. Here it is clearly said, Dasam Ekam Chandriyani. Indriyani Dasekancha: There are ten senses. What are they? They are the five karmendriyas and five jnanendriyas: the five senses of perception and five senses of action. "Swami, I don’t understand. Please explain once again.”

Bhagavan gave this example. Every car will have lights and every car has tires. So, all those parts that see outside are senses of action. Inside, the car has a brake and the steering, plus the clutch. They’re all the organs, functioning from inside. They are the organs of perception. So, jnanendriyas are inside, while karmendriyas are outside: five plus five equals ten senses.

So, Indriyani Dasecancha: There are ten of them. Then what will happen? Indriya Gocharam Pancha: The five external objects (organs) of action and the five senses of perception will all work together. There are five senses of perception: sabdha, rupa, sparsa, rasa, gandha. Sabdha is the sound that you hear with the ears. Rupa is the form you see with the eyes. Rasa is the taste that you taste with the tongue. Gandha is the smell that you smell with the nose. Sparsa is the touch that you feel with the skin. So, these are the five external objects (organs) of action (ears, eyes, tongue, nose, skin). So, with the five senses of perception inside, along with the five external organs of action that help us to act, we are able to function in this world.

Then what happens? These are all equipments. Let us know this. If anyone asks you, “What are you?” Let us not say, “Thousands of rupees in the bank account, four lakhs, three plots.” No, no, no! Not three plots and five flats, no, no, no! “Who are you?” “I have these three components, all these parts.”

"Oh God, you made me a millionaire. I'm a very rich man - not from the point of view of the bank account, but from the point of view of this body You have given. This equipment You have given, all the gadgets that You have gifted, Oh Lord, I'm grateful to You for all of that! I'm a millionaire!"

How do you know? At the time of kidney failure, if the kidney is to be donated by another man, he will charge you two lakhs. So if one kidney is two lakhs, we have two kidneys, four lakhs already ready! (Laughter) For eye donations, it is two lakhs. We have two eyes = four lakhs. Eight lakhs already! So, like that, please calculate how we are millionaires! That we didn’t know. We consider ourselves beggars and paupers. That is the pity. God created you rich enough: in fact God made you a millionaire. “But oh God, I feel happy when I think I'm a beggar". Chi! No one is a beggar! Everyone is a millionaire.

So, with all these ten senses - the five senses of perception and the five senses of action - plus the hidden Moola Prakrithi, the fundamental principle that is the consciousness of the Self or the Soul, then there is present: Icha Dvesha Sukham Dukham, Sangatah Chetana.

Likes, Dislikes, Happiness and Pain

Icha means desire or yearning. There is desire in everybody. If anyone says, “I have no desire,” it is not so. At least you have the desire to live and to breathe. Yes! People say, “I have no desire.” Then why do you go to the canteen? Please sit there only! (Laughter) These gymnastics won't help you to know! Let us be practical. If you say, “I have no desire,” then please don’t breathe! Just sit like that!

So the point is, there is a kind of desire. That is the reason why the Bhagavad Githa says, “Those people who declare like that are ‘midhyachara’ or pretentious. He pretends only. Bhagavad Githa says, “Don’t fight with me!” That is the title given by Bhagavad Githa. Therefore, there is Icha or desire.

Dwesha: There is a kind of dislike; there is dwesha in everyone. I like you, but I don’t like him. I like this place, but I don’t like that place. I like sweets, but not hot taste. I would like round objects, not cylindrical, angular or hexagonal, no, no, no! We have got our own likes and dislikes. I like roses, but not jasmine. I like chrysanthemums, but not dalia. We have got our own likes. I like a flat or I like an independent building. I like a cool drink; I want hot coffee; I want ice cream! So my friends, we have got our own likes and dislikes.

Sukham: There is what you call joy. There is joy within us. Because of the joy within us, the external object will make you joyful. Joy is within you; the external object is only an instrument. The external object is only an anthology. The external object is only an excuse to bring the joy out from within.

A simple example: Here is an ice cream. Let us say that ice cream makes me joyful. If I only look at an ice cream, I won't be happy. When I start eating it, I'm happy. So, ice cream is not happiness, no! The experience of eating the ice cream gives you happiness. I think I'm clear. This also applies to donuts, Kentucky Fried Chicken, hamburgers or macaroni and cheese; whatever you may name it, OK?

So, the joy within you similarly is brought out. The object won't give happiness because if ice cream gives happiness, it should make everybody happy. There are many that don’t like ice creams. If a cup of coffee gives you happiness, everybody should drink this cup of coffee. There are many people who say, “I don’t want it.” Therefore, my friends, happiness is not there in the external objects. The external objects just bring out the happiness from within.

Dukham: There is also pain. When I see a person struggling I feel so badly. I feel their pain and I feel like crying. One simple example: One cow fell into the river and was struggling hard. People could not take it out because of its heavy body. One sage jumped into the river, wanting to save it. Everybody said, “You seem to be a Crack-Master General! Why did you get in there? Why do you want to save that cow? When it is struggling for life, most of us are passing by. Why do you want to save it?” The sage said, “When that cow is suffering, I feel that I am suffering. When that cow is struggling for life, I feel that there is a struggle for life within me.”

Bhagavan gave another example: One person, a religious man, was taking a bath in a river. When he was taking bath in that river, he saw a scorpion on the surface of the water. The scorpion was struggling to come out, but it could not. This gentleman picked up this scorpion with his hand. The scorpion started stinging his hand. Then he dropped it. Watching it struggling again, he picked up once more. It started stinging his hand again. So, the scorpion biting and this man dropping it continued.

Others saw that. “How long would you like to have this play? Leave it there, or are you going to allow yourself to continue like that?” Then this man said, “It is the nature of the scorpion to sting. It is the nature of the scorpion to bite. It is my nature to help. When scorpion is not giving up its habit, why should I give up my habit? (Laughter) When the scorpion has not left its temperament, why should I lose my temperament? Let me continue. This habit of saving life is my temperament; it is my habit. So I will continue.” This is what he said.

Sangatah Chetana. ‘Sangatah’ means the aggregate of the body and senses. You are the combination of the body and the senses, the totality. Can the senses be in Los Angeles, while your body is here? No. The senses and the body, both of them are here. Do you understand? They are present here together. Chetana means intelligence, the consciousness, that intuition.

The Body Is a Sacred Place

Therefore, my friends, 'this' means the body containing the list of these things. There, the Bhagavad Githa says, “Ithi Kshetram Sama Sena.” This is the summary of your body. This is the summary of ‘this’ - what you see from the outside. Then, there is something present beyond ‘this’.

So, ‘this’ is science, while ‘that’ is spirituality. The first part, namely ‘this’, we have studied. The second part, namely ‘that’, is the spirit. ‘This’, the body, is called ‘kshetra’ in Bhagavad Githa. ‘Kshetrajna’ is ‘that’ or the Knower of the body. Please be clear. ‘Kshetra’ means a pilgrim center. Bhagavan said this time and again. It is the place where you are holy, where you are disciplined. So Kshetra is a holy place. Kshetra is a sacred place. Thus the body is highly sacred. Do not neglect it.

There are some people who don’t maintain proper dress. There are some people who don’t have proper dietary habits. In the name of fasting, they think they’re highly religious. Instead of being close to heaven, they are very close to the grave! So punishing the body or self-torture is not religious at all. No one has said it.

The body is a sacred place, a kshetra, a pilgrim center. Bhagavan said, “Body is the moving temple.” Your body is a moving temple, so it has got to be well maintained. It must be quite neat. It should be holy and highly sacred.

So, here it is clearly said: ‘That’, the kshetrajna, is the second part. The first part is kshetra, referring to the body. The second part is the Indweller in this body, the Knower of this body, called kshetrajna.

I will say a few more points and then continue on the same topic next week also. Bhagavan most efficiently and ably deals with this vast subject, including some very interesting points during His discourses. Those of you who have been here for a very long time know that Swami gave talks on the Bhagavad Githa. It was a series of talks. They are all published in book form. I am talking about Chapter 13, having the title “This, That and Both.” So now we have completed one part, the kshetra or body.

The other part is the knower, kshetrajna. Kshetra, the body, you have known. Now know the kshetrajna, the Spirit behind it. Just to make you enjoy a sample, to taste a bit of it, (the taste of the pudding is in the eating of it,) let me serve you little bit, preserving and reserving the rest for next week’s talk.

Bhagavan very often repeats this in His discourses. My friends, you may be wondering why this man says, “Bhagavan said, … Bhagavan said, …” every time. As I don’t have anything to say, this is all about what Bhagavan has said.

The second purpose is that this is a study circle. In this assembly of devotees, we think of Bhagavan’s words time and again, on and on, so that His words will be ringing in our ears. We feel like an echo. This is what is called ‘sravana’. So, ‘sravana’ is hearing. Bhagavan has spoken and now we are repeating His words once again. This is ‘smarana’. ‘Smarana’ is memory ‘recapitulation’. ‘Manana’ is thinking of it again and again. ‘Smarana’ is chanting, repeating once again or recapitulation. It is a spiritual exercise.

If there is only listening or sravana, then these ideas will go into one ear and will find an escape out through the other ear. So it is not sravana alone that is necessary. It is also manana, recalling and recapitulating that is also necessary. Just as the cow regurgitates all the grass partaken of earlier and masticates it once again, we repeatedly again and again, time and again, think of Bhagavan’s message so that we enjoy it by getting ourselves dissolved. Let us dissolve ourselves in Bhagavan’s message.

The Hands of God Are Everywhere

‘Sarvatah Pani Padam, Tat Sarvota Chi Siromukham.’ Bhagavan very often repeats this sloka. The feet of God are everywhere. The hands of God are everywhere. His head is everywhere. His ears are everywhere.

To a man of science, to a computer man, it all appears to be nonsense! How can His hands be everywhere? Impossible! How can His ears be everywhere? Utterly false! How do you expect His head everywhere? There’s no meaning at all to it!

My friends! This is a figurative expression. I say, “I have ten hands in my office.” Do you mean to say only hands? Hands represent persons. There is a figure of speech called ‘synecdoche’ in English literature. ‘Synecdoche’ is a figure of speech where a part is used for the whole and the whole is used for the part.

So when I say, “There are ten hands in my office,” it means that there are ten people in my office. “Please count heads.” What does it mean? Are heads to be removed and kept there, counted like one counts coconuts? It’s not like that. ‘Head’ means ‘per head.’ “Give one prasadam per head.” What is the meaning? Heads are to be cut off, and the distribution of prasadam should take place over there? Chi, chi, nonsense! ‘Head’ simply means ‘a person’. Am I clear?

So similarly, Sarvata Pani Padam, means that all our hands are His. All our feet are His. All our ears are His. All our faces are His. We are only His instruments. So this is the meaning of Brahman having hands and legs all over.

We will come to know about kshetrajna, covering the rest of the points next Sunday. Then we have many more things to learn: “This, That and Both”. The third part is also remaining. I'm sure you must have enjoyed ‘this’, and will be waiting for ‘that’ next week on the same day, at this same time!

Thank you!

(Anil Kumar closed his satsang by leading the bhajan, “Jayaho, Jayaho Gopalana...’”')

Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya

Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

Sai Ram,

Thank you very much!

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