Anil Kumar's Sunday Satsang at
February 17, 2002
The Sunday Talk Given by Professor
"This, That and Both" - Part 1
February 17, 2002
OM… OM… OM…
Sai Ram to all of you!
With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,
Dear Brothers and Sisters!
This week I have chosen the topic: "This, That and Both"
"This, That and Both" is the title of the topic to be dealt with
this morning. The whole talk is based on chapter 13 of the
Bhagavad Githa, called “Kshetra Ksehtrajna Vibhaga Yoga”. I am not
going to make it technical. I am not going to use Sanskrit jargon
and frighten you, no! We will try to understand it as simply as
possible, the way Bhagavan puts it during His discourses.
These are all points dealt with by Bhagavan during His Divine
discourses in the past. The cassettes are available and you must
have gone through the books too. Hence, those of you who are
familiar with Bhagavan’s discourses will certainly understand that
this talk is merely a repetition of what He has said earlier.
Long back, in the year 1989, Bhagavan went to Ooty, in the state
of Tamil Nadu, where there was a school. The campus where Bhagavan
stayed was called “Nandanavanam”. Most interestingly, Bhagavan
wanted the boys to discuss a topic of common interest. After all
they were tenth class boys and, though you may not believe this,
they all got up and said, “Bhagavan, we will discuss on the topic,
‘Science and Spirituality’.” Tenth class fellows! I was very
surprised. The discussion was very good that evening.
The place where Bhagavan stayed was the palace built and owned by
Dalhousie, the Viceroy of England. The Sri Sathya Sai Central
Trust had acquired that. In that beautiful wooden palace, the boys
participated enthusiastically on this topic, ‘Science and
Spirituality’. The discussion was followed by Bhagavan’s discourse
on “Science and Spirituality”, which I wanted to share with you
Science and Spirituality
There is a combination of only two
in the world: ‘this’ and ‘that’. There’s nothing more than this,
that’s all! ‘This’ is what you call science, and ‘that’ is what
you call spirituality. The worldly people limit themselves to
‘this’, or science only. Seekers, aspirants, sages, saints, seers,
and theists - they all seek ‘that’, what you call ‘spirituality’.
But we, as Sai devotees, let us understand that both ‘this’ and
‘that’ are one. Ultimately we’ll come to know that. So ‘this’ is
science and ‘that’ is spirituality. But ‘Both are one’ is the
Let us discuss a few points as put forward by Bhagavan. What is
science? Science is the study; science is the observation; science
is knowledge, which is below the senses, below the level of the
senses. All that you see, all that you hear, all that you touch,
all that you smell - all of those are relating to the sense
organs. Below senses is science: ‘this’ is below senses, whereas
‘that’ is above senses, or beyond senses. The eye cannot see, the
ear cannot hear, the skin cannot touch, and neither can the nose
ever smell ‘that’. So ‘that’ is above senses.
As Bhagavan calls it, this science is the split of love. So, split
of love is science, whereas the spirit of love is spirituality.
Then Bhagavan speaks of a third point. Science, after all, is
incomplete. However well we may study, however deeply we might
investigate, however clearly we might inquire into it, yet science
is always incomplete. Why? What science declared sometime ago is
denied today. What science invents today will be negated tomorrow.
It only means that science is not constant. Science goes on
changing depending upon the equipment available on hand and the
understanding of the mind.
So science is incomplete like the letter ‘C’. ‘C’ begins there and
ends there, with the hollow cavity, with the hollow space inside.
So science is incomplete, whereas spirituality is like the letter
‘O’, which is full: “Poorna Madah, Poorna Midam.” That is full.
So, spirituality is fullness. It is never incomplete.
Science speaks of ‘thwam’ i.e. 'you', whereas spirituality speaks
of ‘that’, ‘thath’. ‘Thath’ is ‘that’. ‘Thwam’ is ‘this’. So
science is thwam, while spirituality is thath. The scientist goes
on thinking of this creation, the world, whereas the spiritual man
thinks of the Creator behind it. There cannot be any effect
without the cause. After all, life is the combination of cause and
effect. Scientists think of the effect, while the spiritual man
thinks of the cause.
Science Is Like Scissors That Cut
Science, as Bhagavan says, is like a
pair of scissors that cuts and divides. Today we have basic
sciences, super sciences, and super specialties. I do not remember
whether I gave this example to you or not…anyway, it is worth
recalling. A person with a dental problem, a toothache, went to a
doctor in Bombay. “Oh Doc! I'm suffering from toothache.” And the
doctor asked, “OK, which jaw? Upper jaw or lower jaw?” The patient
said, “Oh doctor, my lower jaw teeth are paining.” The doctor
said, “I'm sorry. I'm a specialist in the upper jaw. Go to the
next dentist.” (Laughter)
So, the patient goes to the other dentist and says, “Hi, Doctor! I
know you’re a specialist and my teeth are giving me a lot of
pain.” That gentleman asked, “OK, I'm a specialist; but I want to
know if it is the front teeth or the teeth behind, the incisors or
the molars that are bothering you?" "Well, Doctor, it is the back
teeth that are paining.” “I am sorry, I am an expert in the front
teeth only. So, go next door.”
So like this, specialization and super-specialization land us in
confusion. That’s what science is - a scissors. Just as scissors
help us to cut, to divide, science divides, whereas a needle
stitches together small pieces. Take the example of a tailor. You
take a cloth to your tailor. The tailor will just cut them into
pieces and with the help of the needle, stitch them all together
making them into a shirt. Am I clear? Likewise, a needle stitches
pieces into a single garment. Spirituality is like a needle, while
science is like scissors.
Science is something like becoming. You become a scientist; you
are not born a scientist. You become a scientist because of your
interest and inquisitiveness. That is all. You are not born a
scientist. No one is ever born a scientist. So, science is
becoming, whereas you are the very being. You are spiritual. Your
very being is existential. You are existence. You are the very
being, you are not becoming.
Science is a matter of questioning: I go on questioning, “Why,
what, where, when, how?” Science must necessarily answer all these
questions. So, science is a matter of eternal questions! I go on
questioning in order to know the basic facts of life.
But spirituality is not a question. It is a quest - a quest
meaning a search, a quest - to inquire, a quest - a meditation, a
quest - contemplation. A quest is a search, infinite and
indefinite. So, while science is a question, spirituality is a
quest. These are all the points that Bhagavan made.
Explanation and Exclamation
Science gives you an explanation. A
burning splinter burns brilliantly in the presence of oxygen. Why
does it burn? Because of oxygen. Why does it not? Because of
hydrogen. Everything has got an explanation. Science should give
an explanation. And if it does not explain, it cannot be
scientific. If it is scientific, it requires an explanation.
Science and explanation go together. That which cannot be
explained is not science at all.
But spirituality is not explanation. It is an exclamation, with
wonder and awe, a thrill, full of grandeur and excitement. It is
not given to any explanation. It is only exclamation: “AHH! I saw
Swami! WOW!” That’s it. (Laughter) There’s no explanation. It is
In science, there is what we call a sort of experiment and
inference. You do some experiment. On the basis of observation,
you draw some inference. Science requires three things -
experiment, observation and inference. “This is the experiment,
these are my observations and this is my inference.” Spirituality
is not like that. It is experience. Spirituality is experience -
experience of the Reality. It is nothing like observation and
Solved and Dissolved
In science, there is always a
problem to be solved. If there is no problem, then there is no
science at all. So, a scientist is always after one problem or
another and he becomes problematic. So, a scientist is
problematic, while science is a problem. Why? It was Einstein who
said, “I don’t want to be born again as a scientist. If I am to be
born again, I would like to be born as a carpenter.” He was very
ashamed of his inventions, his scientific research and the
theories on atom bombs, which caused the destruction of a large
number of people. He felt ashamed of his career as a scientist.
So the point is, science is a problem to be solved. But
spirituality is not like that. It is a mystery wherein you get
dissolved. Something is solved: there in science, while you are
dissolved here in spirituality. You do not exist there in
Bhagavan passes by along the darshan line. He looks at you, you
look at Him. There is a smile, an exchange of looks - ah! That’s
all. “Wow! What happened to you?” “Well, I don’t know what
happened!” (Laughter) Before you had a castor oil face then. But
when Swami looks, your face starts burning like a thousand candles
or bulbs. Why? That’s it; there’s no explanation.
So the point is, spirituality is a mystery to be dissolved, not a
problem to be solved like in science. You dissolve. As Bhagavan
talks to us, as Bhagavan grants an interview, the kind of thrill
we have, the way we walk, the way the face shines brilliantly with
all its radiance - well, it is all because you got dissolved!
After the interview, as devotees come out of the interview room
and start sharing their experiences, watch their faces. They
forget what they are - their accomplishments, their positions,
they forget all. They go on explaining things; they go on telling,
“See, He saw us from there. We started walking over there. He just
wanted…” “Ah, I see!” Why? He got himself dissolved. There is no
question of 'I-ness' here. There is no question of ego here. There
is no question of identity here. There is no question of body
identification or position, consciousness or personality
awareness, no, no! You got dissolved, that’s it. So science is
just what we call - it needs to be solved. Spirituality requires
to be dissolved.
Manifest and Unmanifest
Then what is science? Science is
manifestation. I find the table, I find the mike; you see me and I
see you. We are all with forms and names. All those who are
created, all those that are in existence have their names and
forms. This is what is called, ‘Life manifest’. It means that
there is the current (electricity), which is unmanifest, while
there is the mike that is manifest. There is current unmanifest,
while light is manifest. So the unmanifest is what we call
spirituality. Life unmanifest is spirituality. Life manifest is
science. One sees the scene and the other sees the seer. That is
And then, science sometimes says, “Yes” and sometimes says, “No”.
One scientist says, “This is the point.” The other scientist says,
“I am sorry, but there is another point.” So, there are arguments
and counter-arguments. There are thoughts and counter-thoughts.
They are agreeable and disagreeable. All of them agree to
disagree! In other words, science is full of thesis and
anti-thesis, acceptance and negation, denial and acceptance. But
spirituality is not like that. It is synthesis. Thesis and
anti-thesis are the components of science, while spirituality is
If someone says, “This is my experience” I cannot say, “You are
wrong" or "You are right". If someone says, “Sir, this is what I
dreamt” I cannot say, “Your dream is wrong” because it is your
dream. Who am I to say, “No”? So, I cannot deny your dream. You
cannot question my dream. The way I understand Bhagavan is
different from the way you understand Bhagavan. So I cannot
question your understanding. Likewise, my understanding cannot be
negated or denied by you. It means it is all true. Your
understanding, your dream, your way of comprehension, your way of
analysis - all are one. So spirituality is synthesis and totality,
whereas science is thesis and anti-thesis.
Bound / Beyond Time and Space
Next, time and space bind science.
In physics and chemistry, they will all say, “Depending on the
temperature and pressure, equal volumes of gases, under equal
conditions of temperature and pressure, contain equal number of
molecules." Oh-ho! Temperature and pressure is mentioned there. So
every scientific law is bound by pressure and by temperature, and
is limited by time and space. But spirituality is beyond time and
A simple example: Long, long ago Bhagavan materialized a gold
chain. Well, what He did was He took that chain very close to the
Siva Lingam. You know what Siva Lingam is…an idol, a Siva Lingam,
yes? Swami just put up the chain to the Siva Lingam. It got stuck
to it. No chain can get stuck to a stone. Just try it; you can try
it. You cannot keep, attach or fix your chain to any stone, no! It
drops off immediately. If you want to take the risk, you can do
it. So, normally a chain will never get stuck to stone. It is
In those days, there was a scientist by the name of Dr.
Bhagavantham. This Dr. Bhagavantham asked, “Swami, I am a
physicist. The Siva Lingam, after all, is a stone. And the chain
you materialized is made of gold. How is it that it got stuck to
that stone?” Baba laughed and said, “Instead of questioning like
that, you can think this way: "The One who can materialize, can
also make it get stuck! (Laughter) The One who materialized by way
of the hand, can’t He see to it that it gets stuck to that stone?
Do you still doubt it?” This man understood that Baba is beyond
science and he came to his senses! Once we understand that Baba is
beyond science, we will come to our senses. No temperature can do
Long, long ago, one American - a very busy photographer/cameraman
from Hollywood in the United States - came here because of the
pressure from his wife. You know in Sai Era, a very funny thing is
that husbands are driven or drawn by their wives. So wives are the
engines, while husbands are the compartments. (Laughter) We may
not openly agree, but this is the universally-known truth, fact,
and a very public truth. So wives do not keep quiet unless
husbands follow them.
Rainbow On a Hot Summer Day
So this Hollywood actor, who was
also a writer and a director, was forced to be here. He had told
his friends back in the USA before coming, “If I am to accept
Bhagavan Baba like my wife does, I shall ask Swami to create a
rainbow for me! Such a thing could not possibly drop out of His
sleeve. I should experience something like that and then I will be
convinced of Swami’s genuineness.”
One day after arriving here, this gentleman and his wife climbed
up on a close-by hill. They sat there watching the whole scene,
seeing in all directions from the top. It was daytime, around
11:30 AM. It was very, very bright. Suddenly they saw a rainbow in
the sky. But it was not the ordinary, curving type of a rainbow.
It went straight up into the sky and then started dissolving
slowly from the bottom up while they were looking at it!
Well, after seeing that rainbow, he was wonder-struck. “Wow! I had
not spoken to anyone about my desire. Baba brought this!” They
were wonder-struck. Immediately they came down and joined the
darshan line. The next morning, Swami came over to him and said
with a big smile, “Well, how did you like My rainbow?”
Slowly, slowly, slowly Bhagavan gives time, a long rope to hang on
to! So, this man also stood in the darshan line. Immediately he
got an interview. Such people will get an interview immediately
because they doubt. (Laughter) Those that have accepted Him, they
don’t need an interview because they have already accepted Baba as
God. So those who don’t have interviews can have the satisfaction
that they are already confirmed, declared devotees. (Laughter) You
are already declared and confirmed. You don’t need to be specially
called; it is not necessary! You don’t need to be converted. You
don’t need to be transformed. You don’t need to be convinced. You
know Baba is God, so why interview again? When you are healthy,
why do you need a doctor? You need a doctor because of BP problem,
blood pressure problem. When your health is normal, OK!
So similarly, this man got an interview. His wife also got one
naturally, as the procedure is like that here. Well, when they
were called in, Bhagavan materialized a fruit, a small fruit.
Swami said, “You eat it.” Swami asked, “What fruit is this?”
(Laughter) “Swami, I don’t know.” Then Bhagavan said, “This fruit
is not available in this whole country. This type of fruit is not
available during this time of the year, during this season. Come
on, eat it.” That fellow started eating that fruit, and he started
experiencing the sweetness, its taste, right from inside the
stomach. Wow! Sweet, sweet, completely sweet! Why? It is because
Baba is beyond time and space.
A Fruit Specially Materialized
A few months back, a Nagarjuna
construction gentleman was here by the name of Raju. You must have
seen him also. He is the Managing Director. He is in charge of the
housing colony that is to come up here quite soon. Swami called
him openly, there on the dais, materialized a fruit and asked him
to eat it. Swami broke it into two halves, and gave one to the
Vice Chancellor and one to this Raju. Had there been third piece,
I would have been the lucky soul! (Laughter) But I was not.
So He gave one half to this man and one half to the other man.
Both of them started eating, expressionless. (A.K. demonstrates
munching on a fruit.) They were not talking verbally, no. Then
Swami asked this Raju, “What is this fruit? How is it?” Raju said,
“Bhagavan, I went around India. I had recently been to Kashmir. I
had been to Badri and Kedar (holy pilgrimage places, high in the
Himalayas). I went on this pilgrimage. I saw all sorts of fruit,
but not this type of fruit.”
Swami said, "How could you see it there when it is not found
anywhere? (Laughter) This is specially materialized for you. So,
how is it?” The gentleman started explaining, “Swami, the
sweetness will remain till tomorrow at least. (Laughter) This
intensity of sweetness I have not ever experienced so far.”
How could Bhagavan materialize that fruit? How could Bhagavan
materialize that fruit during the non-season? Why? Season and
reason are for you and for me. Reason and season - well, they
don’t have anything to do with Bhagavan. Bhagavan is beyond all
that. So, time and space bind science; while spirituality is
beyond time and space.
A couple of years ago, Bhagavan went on repeating this statement.
I do not know how many of you heard it. Scientists say, “This is
matter; this is energy. This is energy; this is matter.” But
Bhagavan said, “Energy can be transformed into matter; matter can
be converted into energy. Matter and energy are mutually
transferable and mutually convertible. Matter is only energy,
that’s all. Energy manifest is matter. Matter unmanifest is
energy. Matter and energy are the reverse and the obverse of the
Therefore, my friends, it is cosmic energy. It is Divine energy
from the standpoint of spirituality. Whereas, from the point of
science, this is matter, while that is energy. These two are
different. According to the spiritual concept, they are one and
The External and the Internal
Science requires intelligence.
Science requires memory. Science requires timely action. One has
to be alert. One has to be observant. He should be able to observe
more and more all that has been happening. So science requires
intelligence and observation. This is what is called ‘pravritthi’
or external activities. Pravritthi is always looking towards the
external world. How are the elements functioning? What is this
energy? What is electricity? What is heat? What are spacecrafts?
Everything is outside.
Therefore, my friends, science is involved in the external world.
It centers round the physical world. It is just the product of the
head called ‘pravritthi’, whereas spirituality is an experience
within. It has nothing to do with the head. It has got something
to do with the heart. Spirituality starts giving you the
experience at the level of the heart. Science helps you to
investigate and to experiment with all that you think of in your
mind. So, pravritthi is the mind, and nivritthi, the internal, is
the heart. That is the difference between science and
Then, ultimately what happens? I'm the scientist, why not? OK!
Because you concentrate only on the world, because you think only
of all the matter, you think of all convenience and comforts, so
what happens? A scientist is highly egoistic. Many scientists
think they know everything, though we know that they know nothing.
After all, the scientist knows only a part of the Creation. He
cannot claim himself to have known the whole, no! He knows only a
little. It was Newton who said, “I'm like a child collecting
pebbles, walking along the shore of the sea.” So a scientist knows
only a fraction. He cannot claim to know everything, no! He is
egoistic and possessive.
The scientist is possessive. Why? You find patenting today. People
want to patent even basmati (high-quality) rice. Some day people
may even patent the oxygen that we breathe. (Laughter) So this
kind of possessiveness is just the quality of a scientist’s urge
to dominate. Scientists want to dominate, yes! “Because I have
these atom bombs, you have to surrender to me. Because we have got
the unmanned spacecraft, which can bomb and put to death thousands
of people, let me dominate.” So the scientist wants to dominate.
He has the spirit of ego and pride. Then also he wants to dictate
terms to others. He is highly, utterly, totally selfish. There may
be some exceptions, but the majority of the scientific people are
A Spiritual Person Is Always Humble
On the other hand, the one of
spirituality is always humble. A spiritual man, a religious man,
is always humble. You must have seen the photographs of Mother
Teresa, the Nobel Laureate, the Mother who served millions of
forlorn people. How humble she was! She bowed down with folded
hands and went into the palace to see the Pope in Rome. And then
with folded hands, she bent down to receive the Nobel Prize.
After all, what was the property of Mother Teresa at the time of
death? Do you know? Two plastic buckets, one plastic mug and two
pairs of clothes. That’s all; nothing more. All the cars that she
received, she sold them and gave to the Sisters of Charity
Association. So, humility is the hallmark of a religious person.
Equanimity - It means he is not puzzled. The bumps and jumps in
life do not toss him. He maintains a spirit of equanimity and he
has got the spirit of equality. He does not consider himself
superior to anyone. Equality, equanimity and humility are the
features of a religious man. Plus he’s ready to sacrifice
anything, even his life for that matter.
So my friends, ‘this’ is science; ‘that’ is spirituality. Such was
the topic on which Bhagavan gave a discourse in the year 1989 in
Ooty (Uttagamangalam - the full name of Ooty) to the
schoolchildren there. I still very well remember that pleasant
The Body Is Composed of Elements
Bhagavad Githa also helps us to know
‘this’ and ‘that’, which is very clearly given in Chapter 13.
‘This’, yes, this! This is the body. What is its nature? What are
you composed of? This means what? (Anil Kumar chants a sloka from
the Bhagavad Githa:)
Mahabhutani Ahamkaro Buddhir Avyaktam Eva Cha,
Indranidasaikancha Pancha Chendriya Gochara.
This is the statement in Bhagavad Githa. Clearly it is said:
‘Mahabhutani’. The body is composed of five great elements. Kindly
go through Bhagavan Baba’s discourses given to students during the
summer. During summer, you have lectures on Indian Culture and
Spirituality by Bhagavan every evening. One time He dealt at
length on this subject.
Mahabhutani: the body is composed of five elements. There is air
outside; there is air inside: the breathing process. There is
space outside; there is space inside. There is fire outside; there
is fire inside. All the five elements you find outside are also in
you. The body is made up of the five elements: earth, fire, space,
air, and water. These five elements are present there in the body
- Mahabhutani meaning, the five elements.
Ahamkaara: ego. Ego! “Who are you?” “I am so and so.” “Where do
you come from?” “I come from that place.” “What are you?” “I am
so-and-so.” So, this kind of 'I-ness' is ego. If this 'I-ness' is
not there, if this life is not there, we are just plastic dolls in
a cloth showroom. So this kind of ego introduces one’s own self
as, “I am so-and-so.”
Buddhi Avyaktam Eva Cha: ‘Buddhi’ means intellect. So there is not
only ego, but intellect also. If there were only ego without
intellect, one would act like a male buffalo. A he-buffalo! (Anil
Kumar imitates the grunting of a buffalo) “Humm, humm!” That’s
Kindly go through what Bhagavan has said in Sathya Sai Speaks,
Volume I. If you just beat the he-buffalo with a cane, the
he-buffalo will say, “Humm, humm’, which means ‘Hum, hum’ or (in
Sanskrit this means): ‘I, I, I’ or ego. Now when that skin of the
he-buffalo is taken, with all the nerves removed, you make strings
of the violin with it. When you play it, it won’t say, “Hum.” It
will say, “Tum, tum” (which in Sanskrit means): ‘You, you, you’.
So, it changes from ‘hum’ to ‘Tum’. The difference is only because
of the flesh; it is because of the ego.
Avyaktam Eva Cha. ‘Avyaktam’: In this body with the five elements,
there is a hidden principle. That is individual soul, the
individual spirit, which will make all this function, which will
make all of this operate. So that is Avyaktam Eva Cha. Moola
Prakritthi: the fundamental principle - that is what you call
individual consciousness or individual soul. That is Ahamkaara.
There Are Ten Senses
Indriyanida Dasekancha, Pancha
Chendriya Gocharah. Here it is clearly said, Dasam Ekam
Chandriyani. Indriyani Dasekancha: There are ten senses. What are
they? They are the five karmendriyas and five jnanendriyas: the
five senses of perception and five senses of action. "Swami, I
don’t understand. Please explain once again.”
Bhagavan gave this example. Every car will have lights and every
car has tires. So, all those parts that see outside are senses of
action. Inside, the car has a brake and the steering, plus the
clutch. They’re all the organs, functioning from inside. They are
the organs of perception. So, jnanendriyas are inside, while
karmendriyas are outside: five plus five equals ten senses.
So, Indriyani Dasecancha: There are ten of them. Then what will
happen? Indriya Gocharam Pancha: The five external objects
(organs) of action and the five senses of perception will all work
together. There are five senses of perception: sabdha, rupa,
sparsa, rasa, gandha. Sabdha is the sound that you hear with the
ears. Rupa is the form you see with the eyes. Rasa is the taste
that you taste with the tongue. Gandha is the smell that you smell
with the nose. Sparsa is the touch that you feel with the skin.
So, these are the five external objects (organs) of action (ears,
eyes, tongue, nose, skin). So, with the five senses of perception
inside, along with the five external organs of action that help us
to act, we are able to function in this world.
Then what happens? These are all equipments. Let us know this. If
anyone asks you, “What are you?” Let us not say, “Thousands of
rupees in the bank account, four lakhs, three plots.” No, no, no!
Not three plots and five flats, no, no, no! “Who are you?” “I have
these three components, all these parts.”
"Oh God, you made me a millionaire. I'm a very rich man - not from
the point of view of the bank account, but from the point of view
of this body You have given. This equipment You have given, all
the gadgets that You have gifted, Oh Lord, I'm grateful to You for
all of that! I'm a millionaire!"
How do you know? At the time of kidney failure, if the kidney is
to be donated by another man, he will charge you two lakhs. So if
one kidney is two lakhs, we have two kidneys, four lakhs already
ready! (Laughter) For eye donations, it is two lakhs. We have two
eyes = four lakhs. Eight lakhs already! So, like that, please
calculate how we are millionaires! That we didn’t know. We
consider ourselves beggars and paupers. That is the pity. God
created you rich enough: in fact God made you a millionaire. “But
oh God, I feel happy when I think I'm a beggar". Chi! No one is a
beggar! Everyone is a millionaire.
So, with all these ten senses - the five senses of perception and
the five senses of action - plus the hidden Moola Prakrithi, the
fundamental principle that is the consciousness of the Self or the
Soul, then there is present: Icha Dvesha Sukham Dukham, Sangatah
Likes, Dislikes, Happiness and Pain
Icha means desire or yearning. There
is desire in everybody. If anyone says, “I have no desire,” it is
not so. At least you have the desire to live and to breathe. Yes!
People say, “I have no desire.” Then why do you go to the canteen?
Please sit there only! (Laughter) These gymnastics won't help you
to know! Let us be practical. If you say, “I have no desire,” then
please don’t breathe! Just sit like that!
So the point is, there is a kind of desire. That is the reason why
the Bhagavad Githa says, “Those people who declare like that are
‘midhyachara’ or pretentious. He pretends only. Bhagavad Githa
says, “Don’t fight with me!” That is the title given by Bhagavad
Githa. Therefore, there is Icha or desire.
Dwesha: There is a kind of dislike; there is dwesha in everyone. I
like you, but I don’t like him. I like this place, but I don’t
like that place. I like sweets, but not hot taste. I would like
round objects, not cylindrical, angular or hexagonal, no, no, no!
We have got our own likes and dislikes. I like roses, but not
jasmine. I like chrysanthemums, but not dalia. We have got our own
likes. I like a flat or I like an independent building. I like a
cool drink; I want hot coffee; I want ice cream! So my friends, we
have got our own likes and dislikes.
Sukham: There is what you call joy. There is joy within us.
Because of the joy within us, the external object will make you
joyful. Joy is within you; the external object is only an
instrument. The external object is only an anthology. The external
object is only an excuse to bring the joy out from within.
A simple example: Here is an ice cream. Let us say that ice cream
makes me joyful. If I only look at an ice cream, I won't be happy.
When I start eating it, I'm happy. So, ice cream is not happiness,
no! The experience of eating the ice cream gives you happiness. I
think I'm clear. This also applies to donuts, Kentucky Fried
Chicken, hamburgers or macaroni and cheese; whatever you may name
So, the joy within you similarly is brought out. The object won't
give happiness because if ice cream gives happiness, it should
make everybody happy. There are many that don’t like ice creams.
If a cup of coffee gives you happiness, everybody should drink
this cup of coffee. There are many people who say, “I don’t want
it.” Therefore, my friends, happiness is not there in the external
objects. The external objects just bring out the happiness from
Dukham: There is also pain. When I see a person struggling I feel
so badly. I feel their pain and I feel like crying. One simple
example: One cow fell into the river and was struggling hard.
People could not take it out because of its heavy body. One sage
jumped into the river, wanting to save it. Everybody said, “You
seem to be a Crack-Master General! Why did you get in there? Why
do you want to save that cow? When it is struggling for life, most
of us are passing by. Why do you want to save it?” The sage said,
“When that cow is suffering, I feel that I am suffering. When that
cow is struggling for life, I feel that there is a struggle for
life within me.”
Bhagavan gave another example: One person, a religious man, was
taking a bath in a river. When he was taking bath in that river,
he saw a scorpion on the surface of the water. The scorpion was
struggling to come out, but it could not. This gentleman picked up
this scorpion with his hand. The scorpion started stinging his
hand. Then he dropped it. Watching it struggling again, he picked
up once more. It started stinging his hand again. So, the scorpion
biting and this man dropping it continued.
Others saw that. “How long would you like to have this play? Leave
it there, or are you going to allow yourself to continue like
that?” Then this man said, “It is the nature of the scorpion to
sting. It is the nature of the scorpion to bite. It is my nature
to help. When scorpion is not giving up its habit, why should I
give up my habit? (Laughter) When the scorpion has not left its
temperament, why should I lose my temperament? Let me continue.
This habit of saving life is my temperament; it is my habit. So I
will continue.” This is what he said.
Sangatah Chetana. ‘Sangatah’ means the aggregate of the body and
senses. You are the combination of the body and the senses, the
totality. Can the senses be in Los Angeles, while your body is
here? No. The senses and the body, both of them are here. Do you
understand? They are present here together. Chetana means
intelligence, the consciousness, that intuition.
The Body Is a Sacred Place
Therefore, my friends, 'this' means
the body containing the list of these things. There, the Bhagavad
Githa says, “Ithi Kshetram Sama Sena.” This is the summary of your
body. This is the summary of ‘this’ - what you see from the
outside. Then, there is something present beyond ‘this’.
So, ‘this’ is science, while ‘that’ is spirituality. The first
part, namely ‘this’, we have studied. The second part, namely
‘that’, is the spirit. ‘This’, the body, is called ‘kshetra’ in
Bhagavad Githa. ‘Kshetrajna’ is ‘that’ or the Knower of the body.
Please be clear. ‘Kshetra’ means a pilgrim center. Bhagavan said
this time and again. It is the place where you are holy, where you
are disciplined. So Kshetra is a holy place. Kshetra is a sacred
place. Thus the body is highly sacred. Do not neglect it.
There are some people who don’t maintain proper dress. There are
some people who don’t have proper dietary habits. In the name of
fasting, they think they’re highly religious. Instead of being
close to heaven, they are very close to the grave! So punishing
the body or self-torture is not religious at all. No one has said
The body is a sacred place, a kshetra, a pilgrim center. Bhagavan
said, “Body is the moving temple.” Your body is a moving temple,
so it has got to be well maintained. It must be quite neat. It
should be holy and highly sacred.
So, here it is clearly said: ‘That’, the kshetrajna, is the second
part. The first part is kshetra, referring to the body. The second
part is the Indweller in this body, the Knower of this body,
I will say a few more points and then continue on the same topic
next week also. Bhagavan most efficiently and ably deals with this
vast subject, including some very interesting points during His
discourses. Those of you who have been here for a very long time
know that Swami gave talks on the Bhagavad Githa. It was a series
of talks. They are all published in book form. I am talking about
Chapter 13, having the title “This, That and Both.” So now we have
completed one part, the kshetra or body.
The other part is the knower, kshetrajna. Kshetra, the body, you
have known. Now know the kshetrajna, the Spirit behind it. Just to
make you enjoy a sample, to taste a bit of it, (the taste of the
pudding is in the eating of it,) let me serve you little bit,
preserving and reserving the rest for next week’s talk.
Bhagavan very often repeats this in His discourses. My friends,
you may be wondering why this man says, “Bhagavan said, … Bhagavan
said, …” every time. As I don’t have anything to say, this is all
about what Bhagavan has said.
The second purpose is that this is a study circle. In this
assembly of devotees, we think of Bhagavan’s words time and again,
on and on, so that His words will be ringing in our ears. We feel
like an echo. This is what is called ‘sravana’. So, ‘sravana’ is
hearing. Bhagavan has spoken and now we are repeating His words
once again. This is ‘smarana’. ‘Smarana’ is memory
‘recapitulation’. ‘Manana’ is thinking of it again and again.
‘Smarana’ is chanting, repeating once again or recapitulation. It
is a spiritual exercise.
If there is only listening or sravana, then these ideas will go
into one ear and will find an escape out through the other ear. So
it is not sravana alone that is necessary. It is also manana,
recalling and recapitulating that is also necessary. Just as the
cow regurgitates all the grass partaken of earlier and masticates
it once again, we repeatedly again and again, time and again,
think of Bhagavan’s message so that we enjoy it by getting
ourselves dissolved. Let us dissolve ourselves in Bhagavan’s
The Hands of God Are Everywhere
‘Sarvatah Pani Padam, Tat Sarvota
Chi Siromukham.’ Bhagavan very often repeats this sloka. The feet
of God are everywhere. The hands of God are everywhere. His head
is everywhere. His ears are everywhere.
To a man of science, to a computer man, it all appears to be
nonsense! How can His hands be everywhere? Impossible! How can His
ears be everywhere? Utterly false! How do you expect His head
everywhere? There’s no meaning at all to it!
My friends! This is a figurative expression. I say, “I have ten
hands in my office.” Do you mean to say only hands? Hands
represent persons. There is a figure of speech called ‘synecdoche’
in English literature. ‘Synecdoche’ is a figure of speech where a
part is used for the whole and the whole is used for the part.
So when I say, “There are ten hands in my office,” it means that
there are ten people in my office. “Please count heads.” What does
it mean? Are heads to be removed and kept there, counted like one
counts coconuts? It’s not like that. ‘Head’ means ‘per head.’
“Give one prasadam per head.” What is the meaning? Heads are to be
cut off, and the distribution of prasadam should take place over
there? Chi, chi, nonsense! ‘Head’ simply means ‘a person’. Am I
So similarly, Sarvata Pani Padam, means that all our hands are
His. All our feet are His. All our ears are His. All our faces are
His. We are only His instruments. So this is the meaning of
Brahman having hands and legs all over.
We will come to know about kshetrajna, covering the rest of the
points next Sunday. Then we have many more things to learn: “This,
That and Both”. The third part is also remaining. I'm sure you
must have enjoyed ‘this’, and will be waiting for ‘that’ next week
on the same day, at this same time!
(Anil Kumar closed his satsang by leading the bhajan, “Jayaho,
Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya
Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Thank you very much!