Anil Kumar's Sunday Satsang at
February 18, 2001
Talk by Anil Kumar on February 18th,
"POTHANA" & SAI STORIES
OM… OM… OM…
With Praanams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,
Dear Brothers and Sisters!
The conversation which we had there on the verandah just an hour
ago is going to be shared with you - hot, hot! Very fresh from the
oven! (Laughter and applause) I'm very much interested in
listening and more interested in sharing. Because there is greater
joy in sharing the good news with everybody of what Swami says to
people, what He wants us to know. I believe that Bhagavan takes
every occasion, every incident, to convey something important, to
convey something deeper, something higher, of spiritual
significance, of practical application in our daily lives. It is
with that view that I want to share with you what Bhagavan said
just an hour ago.
There are two famous poets in Telugu literature. One is called
Pothana. Another poet is Srinatha. These are the two poets of
Telugu literature who are very famous. Their names, perhaps you
may find it difficult to repeat, and I don't want you to do so nor
try. But the spirit of it is important. What Bhagavan wants to
convey is important.
The first one's name is Pothana: three letters, Po - tha - na. Am
I clear please? Three letters: Po - tha - na. Bhagavan, being
Saraswati, the Goddess of Literature, the Goddess of Knowledge,
the very Personification, the Embodiment of all that could be
communicated in any language anywhere, can easily split the word,
play with the word and communicate that which we cannot usually
imagine, interpret and comprehend. It is for the Divine player,
the Cosmic Poet, the Poet of poets, who can split the words and
the letters and convey in-depth something new, something creative,
and something novel.
A simple example: the poet's name is Pothana, Po - tha - na, there
are three letters in his name. I was just wondering, 'What is it?
Swami is speaking about this poet Pothana. Is there anything new?'
Swami said, "Split it into two: 'Po' and the other part, 'thana'.
Split into two parts, 'Po' and the second part, the other two
letters, 'thana.'" I see.
What is Swami going to say? 'Po' means 'get out'. Let all the bad
in me, let all the possessive instinct in me, let all the
attachment and the evil traits in me, bad qualities in me, 'Po!',
'Get out!' Ahh! Then what about the other two letters of 'Thana.'
'Thana' means the 'Self', the One you really are, the Spirit, the
Self, the Consciousness, the Awareness. So this poet, Pothana, is
a great poet. Why? He made all the bad in him, 'Po!' 'Get out!'
And he remained in the state of Awareness, the Self-consciousness,
'Thana,' his true Self. So, remaining in that true Self, 'Thana',
he started composing the great epic, Bhagavata.
Bhagavata is one of the greatest epics of Sanathana Dharma (the
Eternal Dharma). Bhagavata deals with the stories relating to
illustrious devotees. If we read Bhagavata, we get lost. We forget
where we are. We'll be transported to the ethereal world, to the
celestial plane. Bhagavata is really a text that one should
necessarily go through.
Such an epic Pothana could write. Such a popular book Pothana
could compose. Why? First thing he did was, 'Po!' He asked all the
bad qualities, 'Po!' 'Get out!' And second, he remained in the
state of 'Thana', the Self, the Consciousness. Out of that
Consciousness, out of that Awareness sprung, out it came out like
a fountain, like a waterfall, all the noble, Divine qualities of
creativity, sublime thoughts, noble thoughts, wonderful thoughts
that kept him in the state of ecstasy, maintaining literature in
the state of excellence. So, Pothana was excited in the beginning,
remained in the state of ecstasy in the position of 'Thana' or
Consciousness, and then expressed later. So, first excitement,
then ecstasy, and last expression. The third state is expression
by way of composition - in this case, the great epic Bhagavata.
That's the reason why it is so beautiful. That is what Bhagavan
My friends! Most of the people, particularly all Indians,
particularly Telugu-knowing people, if they have not heard the
name of Pothana, well, woe unto him! He has no place in all the
fourteen worlds! Even the gates to the hell also will be closed to
him (Laughter). Such a poor fellow! I don't think anyone exists
like that nor, if he did exist, would dare to say, "Here I am,"
having heard this!
And then Pothana’s close relation is Srinatha, another poet.
Srinatha is another poet. They are very close relations. The
difference is Pothana lived the life of a beggar. Though the
greatest poet, he led the life of a beggar. He could not make both
ends meet. He was a great devotee and composed an epic, which is
still alive with all energy, with all life and vitality down this
day. His close relation is Srinatha, another poet. He is a great
name in the field of Telugu literature. He made good compositions,
lived the life of affluence, and was rich enough with wealth, pomp,
show, extravagance and luxury. Ah! Five-storied mansions or
five-star hotels! A man with a bowl was Pothana. A man in mansions
is Srinatha, though closely related.
You must have understood by now that it is not in my nature to
keep quiet but to get into the Divine risk every time! Because of
the Divine insurance policy coverage (Laughter), I could survive
as of today though I am not sure of tomorrow! Now, here is the
question: "Swami, Srinatha, a poet indeed, was a very rich man. He
was a wealthy man, a famous man, a reputed man with so many titles,
who enjoyed the patronage of all kings and emperors of those times.
On the other hand, we speak of Pothana, the great epic composer of
Bhagavata, who always remained a beggar! What a difference it is!
What a price he had to pay as a devotee! Is this the kind of life
expected of a devotee? Must one always be living in want?"
Then Bhagavan said, "A simple illustration. One day Srinatha came
on a visit to Pothana's residence. Srinatha, the rich man, visited
Pothana, his close relation, a poor poet. And Srinatha said like
this, "Hello! How are you?" He was sitting right there on a
palanquin on a silky, velvety mattress of so much thickness,
relaxing and reclining. Ah! He was enjoying luxury. He was
inquiring how his close relation was suffering. "How are you? How
And he didn't keep quiet at that stage. "How are you?" The
agriculturist after all, is an agriculturist. "How are you?" This
great man was toiling hard leading the life of a farmer, an
agriculturist, whereas Srinatha, living in all affluence, was
asking, "How are you?" When he said to this poor man, "How are you?"
he said it with a tinge of heckling to make fun of him, to let him
know how cheap he is.
He is implying, "Here I am. I have composed all my books and have
given them to the King and I enjoy his patronage. But here you
are, and you have dedicated your composition to God, whom you've
never met, whom you never saw, and suffer like this! By dedicating
your composition thus, you are remaining a beggar. By dedicating
my book to the King, I am living in affluence, plenty and
prosperity." That man is asking this man, taking him to be so low,
"How are you, you farmer?" That is a beautiful poem. Of course,
since all of you can't follow, there is no point repeating it in
Telugu unless I have the vanity of exhibiting my memory, which I
don't have. It is not the age for vanity! It is enough if I am
And then this man Pothana, the poor man, the farmer, started
responding to his question. "Look here! Instead of offering my
composition, my book to kings and partake of that dirty, hopeless
food and carry on my life's sojourn, it is enough if I stand on my
own legs and have one square meal a day. It is enough if I lead my
life as a farmer. I'm not bothered about you. This life is enough!"
That's what he said.
Now comes Swami's comment. This story is known to everybody.
Bhagavan gave this beautiful comment: "Pothana cultivated his land
and he has partaken all the food, all the grain, that he had
cultivated himself on the land; whereas Srinatha, being a rich
man, depended on the charity of the King. The King had to give him
some money. The King had to give him lots and lots of riches in
appreciation of his scholarship. He was at the receiving end,
whereas Pothana cultivated his own land. He could grow the grain
and partake his food."
Now Bhagavan adds one more sentence: "As a receiver, no matter
gold or diamonds or riches or anything, even all the wealth, as a
receiver, after all you are a beggar. As a receiver, after all you
are a beggar, no matter whether it is gold or diamonds or anything
else! But Pothana cultivated his own land. He had really labored
hard. He lived by the sweat of his brow and then he started
partaking the grain, the food that he had cultivated, had grown
all by himself. He is the rich man. He may be very poor as a
farmer, but yet he relied on God. He stood on his legs. He never
stood in front of a king, waiting for the riches, waiting for the
Then Swami said, "Who is the rich man now? Not Srinatha, the man
of all riches and wealth. He is not rich. He has riches but he is
not rich. Riches are different from being rich. Riches, all the
riches in this world, represent possessions. We may possess, but
we may not be rich enough.
A simple example: A person is running a sweet shop with all sweets,
laddus and all those sweets you know - the pie and the donuts,
whatever you may call them. But the owner is a diabetic. He cannot
eat anything. The owner is a diabetic. He cannot eat even a piece
of the sweet that he sells to thousands of people. Similarly, you
may have all the riches in the world, but you may not be able to
enjoy anything. So one can have riches but need not be necessarily
Therefore, who is the rich man here? This poor man. The poor man
is rich because he has cultivated his own land and lived on that.
The so-called poor is rich. The so-called rich man is poor because
he is standing in front of the door of the kings, waiting, begging
for the gold and the diamonds.
"Swami, abaa! (Telugu expression of surprise) What an
interpretation it is! I have not heard that interpretation anytime,
though I have gone through some of their own compositions."
I was a student of Telugu literature also. I have gone through
some of their books, but I have not heard this kind of
interpretation. Naturally I was very much thrilled by that, what
Bhagavan has said.
Then I have put another question: "Bhagavan, this morning You are
speaking of poets, poetry, men of letters and scholarship who are
remembered, whose compositions are read everyday. Now, among the
Fine Arts, Fine Arts are five. The Arts are sixty-four in number,
but Fine Arts are five. Among those sixty-four Arts, even robbery
also is an Art! (Laughter) Oh yes, it is an Art! It is not easy to
rob everybody! (Laughter) When you make a film, you can make money
also. Unless it is an Art, how can they make money on robbery? So,
it is also an Art.
So sixty-four forms of Arts are there. Among them, five are Fine
Arts: the Music, the Literature, the Dance, the Drama, and the
Culture. These are the Fine Arts. Then I said, "Swami, is
Literature the greatest among the Fine Arts? What is the greatest
among the Fine Arts?" In other word, among the sixty-four forms of
Arts, five are the Fine Arts. Among these five, what is very fine?
What is the best?
Swami said, "It is not Literature, 'Sahitya', but it is Music, 'Sangita',
which is the best of all. Music is the best among the Fine Arts."
Well, I could not swallow it! "Why, Swami? Why?" We belong to the
Age of Science and Electronics. We cannot simply keep quiet! I
want to get some answer (and also I'll get some banging which
necessarily follows)! (Laughter) We have to pay the price. We
cannot get it just like that. So, "Why is it that You say Music
comes first and Literature comes next among the Fine Arts? Why?"
Bhagavan said, "To understand Literature, you need some kind of
background. You need some kind of effort. You need some type of
formal learning, some education, some standard, to know literature.
But to enjoy music, if your ears are all right, fine!" (Laughter)
If your ears are in good condition, that's fine. You don't need to
know any letters. You don't need to have any education. You don't
need to have any knowledge. But music, ah! You nod your head, no
matter whether it is bhajans or the pop-music of Michael Jackson.
(Laughter) "Well, do You think so?" So, Music is the greatest of
all the Fine Arts. That is what Bhagavan said.
Then come some questions on philosophy and spirituality. I think
you'll appreciate them. Bhagavan said a particular statement in
response to a question. According to Swami, spiritual exercise is
Yoga, not the physical exercise. I told you this many times. In
the name of Yoga, people are making money. All the moneymaking
Yoga is physical exercise, gymnastics. That's all. The spiritual
exercise is true Yoga in the strict sense of the term because Yoga
means union. So, union with God is Yoga.
Now Swami, this is the question: "Those that follow the path of
Yoga, where will they stand in the field of Literature? Because by
going with the description, by going with the verbal expression,
by going with documentation, this spiritual exercise, Yoga, may
dominate. And his creativity, his composition may be subdued as
Yoga, concentration of the Yoga, gets a priority over composition."
Am I clear please? Yoga gets priority over composition. So, a
great poet cannot be a Yogi. That's it. If you want to be a Yogi,
you cannot be a poet. If you want to be a poet, if you are a Yogi,
Yoga takes a priority over this composition.
This is what I said. Swami gave a wonderful answer: "Whatever may
be the composition, whatever may be the documentation, whatever
you may write, there should be an undercurrent of Divinity. There
should be an undercurrent of Yoga. There should be an undercurrent
of spiritual awakening. There should be an underlying current,
underlying flow of spiritual experience."
"Oh-ho! Swami! A Yogi also can be a Kavi, a poet?" Bhagavan said,
"He is only a true poet if he is a Yogi. A Yogi, a man of
meditation, a man of spiritual excellence, a man of awareness, a
Yogi, is a true poet."
"Oh-ho, Swami! Then minus that, what will happen? Supposing I don't
have spiritual awareness? I have no spiritual awakening. Can I be
a poet? Is it necessary that I have, that I should have that
I ask because later let us get deeper and deeper into the subject
so that we'll be done with it once for all. That's why always I'm
very keen to ask - until Swami says, "Enough is enough!" (Laughter)
Let me get the final answer! Let me go deep into the subject, not
superficially because we will not find Swami tomorrow to answer
our questions. This means I may not get another chance to ask Him.
He may meekly, nicely, beautifully avoid me! (Laughter)
Nothing is guaranteed with Swami. When once we are sure that He
will come that way, the Darshan may be cancelled in the honour of
my devotion! (Laughter) When I'm so sure that He'll pass by my
side and collect a letter, that I would have a chance to give some
petition, some appeal, some request, some prayers, Darshan will
start from backwards (Laughter) so that I'm nobody! Therefore my
friends, though it is highly risky I still get into it because I
am not sure of tomorrow. Let me take best advantage of today, and
know all the details!
Now this is the question: A Yogi, a man of spiritual exercise, can
be a best poet, right? My question is, if he's not a Yogi, if he's
not the one of Awareness, can he still be a writer? Can he still
be a poet?"
Swami said, "If he's not a Yogi, such a poet is a Rogi, the
diseased. (Laughter) He is a diseased one, a Rogi. A true Yogi is
only a poet, Kavi. Otherwise, he's a Rogi, a diseased or inflicted
"OK, Swami. Then who am I? I'm not a Yogi. I'm not a poet. Then
who am I?" (I am in a convenient position because that is the
greatness of a Yogi or a Kavi or a poet. Now I'm conveniently away
from those fields, out of the danger zone!) "Then, who am I?"
Then Swami said, "If you enjoy that composition, if you experience
the composition of a Yogi (the one with a spiritual awakening, the
man of spiritual awareness, the man of philosophical bent of mind
or the spiritual state of experience), if you enjoy reading his
composition, you are a Bhogi, the one of pleasure." (Laughter)
So the reader is a Bhogi because he enjoys the pleasure of going
through the composition. So, we are all Bhogis. We read books,
fine! But if the author has spiritual awakening, he's a true poet.
If he has no spiritual awakening, he is a Rogi. It is his
botheration. We are comfortable. So, these were the three words He
played with - Yogi, Bhogi and Rogi. I think I am clear. Am I clear,
And then followed this. Further He said, "The spiritual awakening
will bring out the depths, the fathomless depths, the immeasurable
depths of excellence, which is latent in the poet. Every poet
brings forth the latent, fathomless depths of excellence hidden
within him. With this spiritual exercise, that will find an
expression that originates naturally, that is absolutely required."
That's what Bhagavan has said.
Then another question. Swami said in a lighter vein, "I came
earlier. You were not there. What happened?" (I was there for
Darshan, but I had a little break. Of course, you all know the
reason - to have my breakfast!) At that time, God comes to
supervise. (Laughter) Very inconvenient time! (Laughter) And He
marks me absent! (Laughter) When I am present, He ignores me. (Laughter)
Absence is registered. Presence is ignored. This is the Divine
style of functioning, which so difficult to reconcile till this
day, as we are not able to know the dynamics and the mechanics of
this Avatar, the Incarnation. Yet we have to go through this!
Suddenly He came close, "What happened to you?"
What shall I say? The boys are around. Well, they may smile but I
can't hide anything! Now the cat is out of the bag!
"For breakfast I went, Swami!" (Laughter)
Then He asked me, "What did you eat?" (Laughter) So personal, you
know. It is so difficult to say what I ate because boys stay in
the Hostel, and they may not be having the items I have had this
morning. The poor fellows might have had only bread, but I had
sumptuous things here at home. How dare I make them feel badly.
That is very inconvenient.
Then I said, "Only two items, Swami." (Laughter)
"Only two? What are they?" (Laughter) He doesn't want to leave me
at that point!
"Ah, Swami, two items are there."
"No, no! What are they? Tell Me!"
"One is dosa, other is upma, Swami," I said. "It is a combination,
"Oh-ho! Dosa-Upma combination?"
(You know Dosa and Upma. If you want to know, you can go to the
South Indian Canteen. You may not relish knowing what it is.)
"So, Dosa and Upma - a good combination."
I said, "Oh-ho, I see."
Basing on this, He developed this subject:
"This combination is there in our life," He said.
"Ah! What is it?"
"The combination of secular and spirituality go together - the
world and the Divine. The secular and the spiritual can go
together. That is a beautiful combination besides your Dosa and
I say, what is this? What Bhagavan said is a beautiful statement:
"One is the gross, Sthula. The other is the subtle, Sukshma.
Sukshma means subtle. One is the gross, Sthula. The other is
Sukshma, the subtle. That is a beautiful combination. The gross
contains inside it the subtle."
"Oh, I see Swami! Therefore I do not know what that subtlety is
because I am gross. I am gross - I know my height, I know my
weight, I know my chest. This is gross. And the subtle You spoke
about, I don't experience because it is so subtle to know the
subtlety! (Laughter) So I don't know what it is."
Then Bhagavan said, "Oh-ho! The bulb you see is gross and the
electricity is subtle. Electricity is subtle. You do not see it.
The bulb is gross. That you see. So for the gross to function, the
subtle is responsible. For the gross to be benefited, for the
gross to find an expression, the subtle is an essential need.
Subtle is fundamental, while gross is its expression, is its
manifestation, is its utility. So the subtle expresses itself by
way of the gross."
"Oh!" Then another question: "So, Swami, gross comes out of the
subtle. Am I right? So, there is subtle (Sukshma) and the gross (Sthula).
This Sthula, gross, has come out of, has originated from, has
taken birth from this subtle, Sukshma. Subtle is the cause out of
which gross is born. Am I right?" That's what I said to Swami.
Swami negates whatever we say (Laughter). But it is always for the
better, not for the simple point to say 'no' to you! He answers to
improve on our answer, and for a better understanding.
Then He said, "No, no, no, no! There is gross in the subtle. There
is subtle in the gross."
Oh-ho! Now I'm neither gross nor subtle! I'm gone in both the ways!
At least I'm comfortable as gross. Now that Swami said there is
subtle in the gross, and there is the gross in the subtle, where
am I now? In-between or what?
Swami has gone and made me totally confused! Confusion confirmed
it. "I thought the subtle gave birth, gave rise to, the gross. And
that there is subtle within this gross. Fine! But now You have
confused me, telling that that there's subtle in the gross, gross
in the subtle! I don't understand!"
Then Bhagavan said, "A simple example: You see, here is a mango
seed. The mango seed grows into a mango tree. Where is the tree?
The tree is there, hidden in the seed. Seed is the subtle. Tree is
the gross. So, gross tree is hidden in the subtle seed."
Ah-baa! Who can say that? Subhash! (Good!) What a wonderful
explanation it is! My friends, I'm sure that you'll all agree with
me and you will be one with me when I say that we love Bhagavan as
a world teacher, as a Teacher of teachers, because this
Incarnation has come down on Earth to disseminate and spread the
spiritual knowledge. And to bring within every one of us the
spiritual awakening and awareness of the Self. All the rest of the
activities, the functions, the celebrations, Darshan, Namaskars,
interviews, Prasadam, Akhanda Bhajan, Yajna, all festivals could
all be summed up, aimed at one thing: To make everyone of us
realise the Divinity within. To make everyone of us realise and
experience the Divinity within. That's the reason why we run after
"So the gross is in the subtle. Fine. But how is the subtle in the
gross? You said the seed has grown into a tree. Fine! Seed is the
subtle. Tree is the gross. Very fine! Then, how do You find the
gross in the subtle and the subtle in the gross? Why? How about
the second example? I don't understand."
Then Swami said, "This tree has got mango fruits. And the mango
fruits have got seed inside. So, this gross tree has subtle seeds.
The subtle seeds has gross tree." Oh, I see! I'll have the fruit,
thank you! (Laughter) I will eat the fruit now, thank you!
So Bhagavan says there is a tree in the seed. This means Sthula in
the Sukshma, gross in the subtle. And the seed is there in the
tree. This means the subtle is there in the gross! That's what
Swami has said.
Then He said, "This is the true combination, Ayaa! (an expression
of respect like, 'Sir!') Secular and spiritual, not merely dosa
and upma! (Laughter) Not merely two items of the breakfast. This
is the true combination of secular and spiritual, of gross as well
as the subtle." That is what Bhagavan has said.
"Swami! Anyhow, whether it is there in here or this is there,
that's all right. I see the gross. Fine! I see the gross. I see
the total. I see the form. I can visualize. I can share. I can
enjoy the company. I can improve upon with some cosmetics
available. Well, I can improve upon it - I can put on some more
weight. But the subtle I do not see. How am I to experience it?
You said its location. You mentioned its address. You mentioned
where they exist. You stated how they are inter-linked. But how am
I to experience it? I can see You say, 'Fine. Nice meeting you,'
because I can see Your gross form. The lovely Smile I can see. The
beautiful Face I can see. But how can I say about that subtle
which I do not see? How can I experience that subtle and say, 'This
experience is because of that'? How can I say that, as there is no
direct proof. There is no direct evidence. There is no form?"
Then Bhagavan said…(after all, a fellow like me, I am nothing for
Him!)…immediately He said another statement: "I see. What is the
form of Ananda, bliss? Ananda, bliss, has no form. Bliss has no
form. But are you not blissful? You are blissful! But bliss has no
form." Ah, that's it. So, the one that has no form, the bliss,
makes us, makes the form, feel blissful. So, formless bliss makes
the form full, makes the form blissful. Abaa! Finally I see! Maybe
it is too strong a dose? "Swami, would You please explain
He says, "When you taste sweet, that sweet has a form. But
sweetness has no form." Oh! Sweetness has no form! But a sweet has
a form. Chilies have forms. Take one or two chilies and you will
experience formlessness! (Laughter). We'll experience the
formlessness, OK? Still we have got half-an-hour for lunchtime. If
you want, I'll supply you with chilies! (Laughter) Or Indian,
Andhra, South Indian pickles-form, red-hot! That form will take
you to the formless state (Laughter). Am I clear, Sir?
So Bhagavan says, "Bliss has no form. That formless state of bliss
will make this form experience blissfulness. How to be blissful?
What bliss is, is experienced with this form. But this bliss has
no form as such. And you cannot deny that. Just because it has no
form, I cannot say, 'There is nothing like bliss!' 'Oh, I see. But
you are blissful!' "
"Happiness has no form, but you are happy. Sweetness has no form,
but you relish sweets. Abaa! Food is very hot, spicy! It has no
form, but spicy stuff has a form. The stuff made out of spices has
a form." So, Bhagavan explained this.
Then I said, "Swami! Now I am made to understand. Now I'm made to
understand that all that I take in through these five senses of
perception give me the expression, give me the experience, which
is the same. Am I correct? The sense of vision, the sense of
audition, the sense of hearing, the sense of touch, through these
five senses of perception, I have the experience. Am I right? The
experience gained through these five senses is shapeless. It is
formless. Am I correct, Swami?"
Then He said, "No, no! You are wrong! (Laughter)" (I got used to
this! And I also congratulate myself for being wrong. Unless I am
wrong, how can I get corrected? And unless I stand corrected, how
do I know that I am correct? Swami even improves on our correct
answer also to be make it better, more correct, more accurate,
precise and exact. I may be correct, but I may not be exact. I may
not be accurate. So, even if our answers are correct, Swami will
make them accurate.)
So this is the question, "Bhagavan! All that I gather, all that I
draw out of these five senses of perception give me an experience
which is formless. Is it true?"
The first answer is, "You are wrong." Fine! The second statement
is this, "This experience is the combination of all that is drawn
inside, all that is heard, all that is looked at, all that is
touched. All the information drawn out of these five senses
conglomerate, combine, synthesize, mix themselves, get dissolved
into one single state of experience. All the information drawn out
of these five senses gets dissolved and gives the common, uniform,
single state of experience, like sweet pudding."
Rice pudding, do you know? It is called Payasam. This example is
given, 'Paramaanamu.' Paramaanamu is rice pudding. The Payasam you
know. At the end of Akhanda Bhajan we'll have that - the two
things: hot stuff and sweet stuff. This sweet one, with all the
rice and all that, Paramaanam, is what you call 'pudding'. Right?
You know that? Oh yeah, I think you enjoy Prasadam. Am I right?
Particularly when given by the Divine hands. Don't you think so?
So this second sweet is nothing but the combination of jaggery,
rice, ghee, and milk. All these things make this rice pudding,
right? Similarly, all the information drawn - the perception, the
audition, the touch - is like rice pudding, like a sweet pudding,
that gives you the sweetness of the state and the experience of
bliss. The sweetness of the bliss is compared to the rice pudding.
That is what Bhagavan has said.
"Swami! All right. Now, so I enjoy this sweetness through my eyes,
through my tongue, through my ears, and enjoy and experience with
my mind. Am I right? This is the question: Is the blissful state,
is the state of bliss, experienced by my senses or not? Is the
state of bliss experienced by my mind or not? That is the
The questions are a little serious but yet they are highly
informative. My friends! How long should we rally around the
stories and more stories? To know that Baba is God, one experience
is enough. Throughout lifetimes we listen to stories and more
stories. Then our life becomes a story that ends nowhere!
To know the sea is marine, the whole sea is saltish. We don't have
to drink the whole lot of water! One drop is enough! To know that
Swami is God, one experience is enough. That doesn't mean that I'm
against experiences or that I don't like to share experiences. I
like to. But these experiences should take us to a higher goal, a
greater goal. The purpose of an experience is different. It
depends on how we look at it. The purpose of an experience is to
take you closer and closer to Divinity. Experience is not the
be-all and end-all. Experience is a means to an end. The end is
Realisation. Experience is only a means. It is not the be-all and
end-all. But unfortunately we end up with this only.
So what Bhagavan says at this point I want to share with you now.
What did He say? "Bhagavan! You have mentioned all these points
now. I could understand what You wanted to convey. Still I have
got one doubt."
"What is it?"
"Can I experience bliss with these senses? Can I retain, can I
hold, can I detain that state of bliss in mind for some more
Bhagavan said a simple answer: "Bliss cannot be experienced
through your senses. Bliss cannot be retained. It cannot be held.
It cannot remain in your mind. No!"
I see. "If the mind cannot retain it, if the senses cannot hold
it, then what for is that bliss? What for?"
Then Bhagavan said…Abaa! Really my friends, who can tell these
Vedantic truths in depth, in such a simple style, other than
Bhagavan? Who can tell?
He gave a simple example: "In the daytime, we move happily. We
have all these experiences. Very good. But in the night, when you
go to sleep, what happens to these daytime experiences? They are
gone! In a deep-sleep state, you don't have these experiences of
the day. There in the sleep, you have some experiences which are
not there now. Therefore, whether it is the day or night, no
experience would stay permanently. All experiences are like
passing clouds. The experience of the day leaves by night. The
experiences of the night pass off by the daytime. So, no
experience remains permanently. But the experiencer is permanent.
That experiencer is no one other than Bliss, Ananda."
Abaa! So, the experiencer is Ananda, bliss, non-dual, permanent,
eternal, unpolluted, immortal, crystal-clear. So, that is the
experiencer. Experiences come and pass off. The experiences you
can think of with your mind. We experience through our senses, but
the experiencer is beyond the senses. Experiencer is beyond the
mind. That experiencer is the state of bliss.
So my question is wrong because I want to limit the experiencer to
the senses. When I limit the experiencer to the senses, it is the
waking state. When I limit the experiencer to a state of mind
during the night, it is a dream. So it is neither the mind nor the
senses. The experiencer is continuous, ever- existent. So the
experiencer is Existence. The experiencer is existential. The
experiencer is life. The experiencer is bliss. It is existence,
existential, to be more substantial, whereas experience is just
fleeting. Experience is momentary.
What a wonderful explanation Bhagavan has brought to us this
morning! I was extremely happy.
Then finally God is too tired to explain to dunces like me! At
least let me say something. Let me appreciate Him. Oh-ho! I can't
say, 'Thank you Swami.' 'Thank you' is such a simple word.
Sometimes we don't really mean it.
"What is it?"
I said, "Swami! Who will explain things like this? This morning is
really blessed! Because You have gone in-depth. You explained
about all the poets, Srinatha and Pothana to begin with. You have
clearly explained the Sthula, the gross, and Sukshma, the subtle.
You also explained the state of bliss. Very happy, Swami! We are
very grateful. Who will explain these things to us?"
Swami did not say, "I am happy that you said this!" He's not that
type! (Laughter) He's not waiting for our tributes. He's beyond
all that. What did He say? "I am ready to tell. I don't have
anybody to hear. I don't have anybody to hear these things! I am
ready to tell."
"Swami, what do You mean?"
"Who will understand these things? Who will put such questions?
Who will put such questions of enquiry? Who will put such
questions towards spiritual advancement? Who will put questions
towards philosophical, perfect, total understanding? I am ready to
tell. Who will respond? Who is interested? That's why I am not
telling these things. I'm not telling these things because I don't
have anybody who is interested in these topics."
Let us pray and prove worthy to receive such noble truths, to
receive such philosophical doctrines, such Vedantic truths,
hereafter at least!
And I have got one experience to share with you. I shared this
with another group of listeners last week. Somehow I didn't find
time to share it with you last week. But I want to tell you, to
share with you this present morning before I close my talk.
A very close friend of mine from the local State Bank of India -
he is a very close friend and the Deputy Manager - rang up around
10 o'clock in the night and told me, "Anil Kumar! I have one thing
to share with you."
"Sir! Please let me know."
People know that anything that comes to me will be shared with
many! I repeat that this is ABC, Anil Kumar Broadcasting
Corporation! (Laughter) Yes. If you don't want me to share with
others, don't be anywhere near me! If you are near me, I am a
satellite (Laughter) like Internet, that's all! It's an immediate
transmission because I get joy out of it. Sharing Baba's message
is like a dance, is like music to me. Yes, I love to do it.
The Manager said, "I want to tell you what had happened."
I said, "Sir, what happened?"
"This morning a person came to withdraw money from the Bank. He
received extra money by accident. The clerk cashier somehow, as
ill luck would have it, gave him some extra money. And the person
who received it collected the money, but did not count it. He's
not a fellow to receive more money and go. No. He did not count
it. He simply left. And in the evening, while we were closing the
accounts, suddenly we found out the mistake. One person received
extra money. We were very much worried, as we were not able to
tally the account.
At that moment, one person came immediately running to our office
and said, "Sir! I received extra money. Please take it back."
Then the Manager asked, "This is the modern age. Who will give
that extra money back, return it? I'm yet to meet a person like
that! I am so glad to meet you, to know such a thing could
And that person started telling, "Sir! After receiving money from
you, I had my food there in the canteen and I was resting. And
Bhagavan appeared in my dream and said, "Look here! You received
extra money and those bank people, the employees, are totally
confused! Go back and return the money!" (Applause)
Well, how am I to take it? These things happen to establish the
accredibility, the accountability, and the authenticity of the
Divinity, such that whatever that happens all around, from moment
to moment will go down deep into our hearts so that we listen to
all the sacred teachings.
I received a letter from Manila yesterday, the Philippines. This
is a letter which also I want to pass it on to you, if you are so
keen? (Audience answers, "Yes!"). Yes? I'm a man who will come to
the Parliament with all the stuff! (Laughter) With all the
statistics and up-to-date data! I'm a student of science, with all
That man from Manila, by name Sitaram, is a computer engineer. He
wrote a letter which I showed to Bhagavan yesterday evening. Some
of you might have watched. I was just passing on that letter. And
Bhagavan said, "Keep it in your pocket."
I said, "I have not brought it to keep it in my pocket! No."
He said, "What?"
"I want to read a few lines."
Swami answered with a sound of not wanting to comply.
"No, Swami, please! It will help everybody. Please help! Please
permit me to read out these sentences."
Perhaps out of botheration, being totally vexed and disgusted with
me, having found out that I would not leave Him, He said, "All
right, read it!"
What did he write? There in Manila, Philippines, what did he write
"Sir, I was not at home. My wife had gone for work. And my father
was all alone, a retired teacher, a sincere teacher. Somehow he
was seriously sick. Anytime he might collapse. And he was silently
listening to Sai's Bhajan cassette, 'Deena Bandhava Sri Sai Deva.'
Well, he was listening to the cassette. Suddenly he finds Baba
sitting on the cot, consoling, talking to my father. It is not a
dream! It is not imagination! It is a physical manifestation of
Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, (Applause) sitting on the cot,
conversing with the old man! Sir, please convey my gratitude to
Bhagavan. Please read out this letter to brothers and sisters of
the Sai family." This also is written there in the letter. And I
read out that letter last evening in front of Bhagavan.
Good Lord, the Creator has done millions and millions of these
things. So it is not a surprise for Him. It is a matter of good
news to everyone of us. It matters everything. So I'm so thrilled
to hear these things and share them with my friends from time to
time. With this note, I conclude my talk for this morning with all
the hope that we'll be able to meet next week, same day same time.
Thank you for listening to me. Thank you very much!
(Anil Kumar finished his Sunday talk by leading the Bhajan, 'Sai
Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrityormaa Amritam Gamaya
Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.
Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu
Shanti, Shanti, Shanti
Sai Ram. Thank you.
© Anil Kumar Kamaraju 2004 - Here
reproduced for personal use of the devotees for the purpose of
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